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Welker hit Dirty or Good Football

  • bowmag701
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Posted: 12/1/2008 1:19 PM

Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


I didn't see the game but saw the highlight of that hit. Was it dirty? I don't know, Was it just good play? I don't know. It looked liked he launched hinself a little bit to me, which I think is not legal, or should Welker been paying better attenion to his surroundings. I wonder if one of the Patriots had done that what the reaction might be today. Welker got up and walked off the field so thats good. Just wondering what you think.

Posted: 12/1/2008 1:25 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


I think it was a little of both. It was a guy playing hard, but didn't quite stop at the whistle. I think hitting the receiver when he did was not bad, it was a bang bang play. But launching himself off his feet was a little much.

Posted: 12/1/2008 1:27 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


Like the announcer said, both feet left the ground, and the NFL is about to send him an e-mail. That hit was about taking Welker out of the game imo.

Posted: 12/1/2008 1:44 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


He drew an unsportsmanlike conduct flag, and quite possibly a suspension and fine....But the fact is if Meriweather had done the same to Hines Ward we'd consider it part of the game.
  • AngryWeasel
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Posted: 12/1/2008 1:53 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


I thought it was late. Flag was justified as is fine. If Clark had his head up, he would have been able to see that the pass was deflected and could have eased up. There would be contact, but no kill shot. I consider this a similar situation to where a ball sails well over the WR head and defender still lays him out. Clark is usually a smart player. Not typical behavior from him.

Posted: 12/1/2008 2:04 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


This coming from fans of a team whose DL go after QBs knees and have the biggest cheap shot artist in history in Harrison. Priceless.

Posted: 12/1/2008 3:42 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



Monco wrote: This coming from fans of a team whose DL go after QBs knees and have the biggest cheap shot artist in history in Harrison. Priceless.


I'm sorry. I wasn't aware we weren't allowed to debate whether or not someone laid a dirty hit on one of our players. If you aren't going to make intelligent posts that add to the topic, get lost.


Back on topic, the hit was deserving of a penalty in my opinion. He didn't have to launch himself at Welker, but he did. Is it deserving of a fine? Probably not. Just give him a "warning" and move on. Let's just hope Welker is fine.

Posted: 12/1/2008 3:49 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


Sigh, I know you're only used to hearing this on the Browns board, but Monco get a life. The hit was a little bit on the wrong side of the line. He knew the ball was tipped and left his feet with the intention of laying the receiver out. You are allowed to hit a receiver after the ball is tipped, but you can't do that. The receiver was just jogging out the play and Clark left his feet to try to take his head off. Much more deserving of a fine and penalty than half of the fines we've seen for hits on QBs this year.

Posted: 12/1/2008 3:54 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


Wrong, not a late hit. If ball had not been deflected in flight, Clark and ball would have reached Welker at same moment. This is not only not dirty, but, what you expect and "coach" a safety to do and then hope that "your" safety does it. Curiously, the rap is that Welker was defenseless, but, if the ball had not been deflected and reached him he would not have been deemed defenseless.

Only real issue is that of leaving his feet, but, when they start penalizing that they will end up penalizing 30% of all player activity.

Now, for why this will be a finable offense - it made the "Sports Center" highlights and will effect the subjective judgment of the NFL will rule - in spite of their entreaties,  to no avail, that their judgment is objective.

"He knew the ball was tipped" - You are a mind reader as well as an unobjective homer Fat One?

Last edited 12/1/2008 3:58 PM by bigmaq

Posted: 12/1/2008 4:00 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


Is anyone else surprised that there are more Steelers fans here after the game than before the game?

Typical.

Posted: 12/1/2008 4:11 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


Bigmaq, a defenseless player is defined as I believe (and I'm doing this from memory so I might miss one or not get it word for word... yada yada yada):

1) A quarterback behind the line of scrimmage
2) A receiver in the act of catching a ball
3) A runner who is being held by another player (if a guy is running with the ball and someone holds him up and grabs his legs, you can't come flying in as another defender and launch yourself at his head.)

Basically the only time you are allowed to hit a guy in the head is if he is running with the ball. Even if the ball wasn't tipped and Welker was still trying to make a catch, that hit would have been a personal foul and gotten a flag. The difference is though that it probably wouldn't have been accompanied by a fine (well in Goodell's NFL, it still might have), but since the situation played out like it did it will almost certainly have a fine attached to it.

Posted: 12/1/2008 4:25 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


An official was right there, - and threw a flag. Onto the NFL front office now, ....

Posted: 12/1/2008 5:13 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



GinoC wrote: if Meriweather had done the same to Hines Ward we'd consider it part of the game.

If Meriweather had done the same to Hines Ward, like as not he'd have been the one to wind up knocked out of the game.  Hines Ward doesn't get knocked out of games.  Just sayin'.

As for the play, I thought the flag was justified.  Clark should have seen the ball get tipped so early, and should have been able to pull up.  The receiver was defenseless, and the hit was unnecessary.  That said, apart from the timing of it on third down, it was probably a good penalty to take.  That's what you've got to do against a guy like Welker.  You want to make your living underneath where the big boys play, juking your way around slower guys?  Fine... but you're going to take some wallops for it.

Now, I'm of a mind that there are ample plays that deserve flags that aren't by any means 'dirty,' and this was just such a play.  Clark was trying to punish the guy, but surely not injure him.

Posted: 12/1/2008 5:34 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


I wouldn't call it dirty, but I think a flag was justified. I don't think a fine is justified and surely a suspension isn't warranted. But it was bad timing for pittsburgh to have it happen on 3rd down.

The tip was about 5 yards in front of welker, so to expect clark to be able to see the tip and then hold up on the hit is a tough call. Had welker caught the ball, the hit would have been necessary to try and break it up.
  • Patsie
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Posted: 12/1/2008 9:02 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



Monco wrote: This coming from fans of a team whose DL go after QBs knees and have the biggest cheap shot artist in history in Harrison. Priceless.





Clint Eastwood has spoken !!


Tedy used to do that for us, and it was amazing hearing
the booming helmet hit from the stands.   We loved it. 
One day upon contact,  he did blow out his heart doing it, 
and hes since stopped it,,,,,but I miss that stuff. 
No one did better helmets than Tedy.  BOOM !!!
He destroyed people.




WW took a " Full Tilt "  Tedy hit, 
He got freekin Jacked Up.
and I had to suck it up hard,  watching it.







.

Last edited 12/1/2008 9:03 PM by Patsie

Posted: 12/1/2008 9:59 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



Vabthang5 wrote: I think it was a little of both. It was a guy playing hard, but didn't quite stop at the whistle. I think hitting the receiver when he did was not bad, it was a bang bang play. But launching himself off his feet was a little much.

Didn't stop at the whistle? Maybe you need to rewatch it and listen to when the whistle is blown.

Last edited 12/1/2008 10:01 PM by fragmag

Posted: 12/1/2008 10:04 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


You do know the game is over and the steelers won right? That means you can go back to whatever board spawned you and argue with fans who will agree with you.
fragmag wrote:
Vabthang5 wrote: I think it was a little of both. It was a guy playing hard, but didn't quite stop at the whistle. I think hitting the receiver when he did was not bad, it was a bang bang play. But launching himself off his feet was a little much.

Didn't stop at the whistle? Maybe you need to rewatch it and listen to when the whistle is blown.
  • wndrwl
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Posted: 12/1/2008 10:56 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


the hit was outright dirty, the ball was tipped at the 43 yrd line and welker was hit on the steelers 49 yds. clark left his feet and leaned his shoulder into welker. funny thing, i just got banned from the steelers board cuz i called clark a name (its 8 letters and starts with a s and end with a d), what a bunch of cry babies.

Posted: 12/2/2008 12:36 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


It was certainly a penalty but not dirty. sometimes you take into account the player involved.

Welker is one hell of a player, hope he is ok.

Posted: 12/2/2008 7:26 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



bowmag701 wrote: I didn't see the game but saw the highlight of that hit. Was it dirty? I don't know, Was it just good play? I don't know. It looked liked he launched hinself a little bit to me, which I think is not legal, or should Welker been paying better attenion to his surroundings. I wonder if one of the Patriots had done that what the reaction might be today. Welker got up and walked off the field so thats good. Just wondering what you think.

Good question.  If it was not "dirty" it was viscious.   Let's go back 30 years.

Was Jack Tatum's hit legal?  Probably. Was Tatum's hit dirty and meant to hurt a player...most definately.  That is how I look at the Welker hit.  Clark wanted an outcome to hit much smaller and vulnerable player so hard  that it would have knocked him out of the game.  He went for it. But it could have had a Stingley outcome.

I like to look at trends in all things as the best barometer of intent.   If film shows a pattern like this with any player or team then it's dirty to me.  If it is isolated, then I generally give any player a pass.  And that goes for our players too.

Last edited 12/2/2008 7:33 AM by Drayenob

  • Patsie
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Posted: 12/2/2008 7:32 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



Drayenob wrote:
 

Good question.  If it was not "dirty" it was viscious.   Was Jack Tatum's hit legal?  Probably.
Was Tatum's hit dirty and meant to hurt a player...most definately.  I tend t lean that direction with the Welker hit.  Could have had a Stingley outcome.

I like to look at trends in all things as the best barometer of intent.   If film shows a pattern like this with any player or team then it's dirty to me.  If it is isolated, then I give any player a pass.  And that goes for our players too.



All of that is just football. 



Some people called the hit on The Brady dirty as well.



Football is harsh, gruesome at times, no doubt.




WW got up from the hit, hes one tough guy.





.

Posted: 12/2/2008 8:35 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



fragmag wrote:
Vabthang5 wrote: I think it was a little of both. It was a guy playing hard, but didn't quite stop at the whistle. I think hitting the receiver when he did was not bad, it was a bang bang play. But launching himself off his feet was a little much.

Didn't stop at the whistle? Maybe you need to rewatch it and listen to when the whistle is blown.
Seriously.  Welker hit the ground before the ball did, let alone Clark's hit on Welker.  Dude let up on a live ball and got crushed for it.
  • wndrwl
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Posted: 12/2/2008 8:58 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


"Some people called the hit on The Brady dirty as well"

well, it was. when you dive at the lower legs of a player what ya think is gonna happen, the human body isnt suppose to be able to flex that way.

how can people with a straight face say clark's hit wasnt illegal, let talk facts.

1. ball was tipped at the 43 yd line of the patriots
2. welker was at the time of the tip was at the steelers 49 yd line
3. clark was out of the tv view (i guess he was about 5 to 7 yds behind welker)
4. whistle was blown
5. clark feet left the ground

Posted: 12/2/2008 9:29 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



wndrwl wrote:

1. ball was tipped at the 43 yd line of the patriots
2. welker was at the time of the tip was at the steelers 49 yd line
3. clark was out of the tv view (i guess he was about 5 to 7 yds behind welker)
4. whistle was blown
5. clark feet left the ground
Nah.  Clark clearly levels him before the ball hits the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWUDFP5ZvAE

Posted: 12/2/2008 9:35 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


In fact that clip shows Welker was just "letting up" on the play, - and got nailed LATE!!

Posted: 12/2/2008 9:48 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



Hunter07 wrote: In fact that clip shows Welker was just "letting up" on the play, - and got nailed LATE!!

Not so much late - as, AGAIN, the ball hadn't hit the ground yet.  Your boy let up on a live ball.  Sucks for him, but I expect he'll know better next time.

Posted: 12/2/2008 10:01 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


you can argue the timing all you want but he left his feet and used is body like a projectile, in the NFL that is a penalty. Cut and dry.


Supposedly there is a video the Pats have that shows Clark laying out defenseless players, but anytime someone come at him with the ball or squares him up, he ducks or avoids direct contact. So basically he is a coward.

Posted: 12/2/2008 10:21 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 



Ragtime wrote:
Hunter07 wrote: In fact that clip shows Welker was just "letting up" on the play, - and got nailed LATE!!

Not so much late - as, AGAIN, the ball hadn't hit the ground yet.  Your boy let up on a live ball.  Sucks for him, but I expect he'll know better next time.
Ragtime, have you ever been in a spinal injury ward and seen what people go though for the rest of their lives?

Most players and coaches at all levels would find that hit abhorrent and want no part of it in the game. 

You would not be posting your nonsense on this board at all had Welker been seriously
or catastrophically injured.   It is indefensible.

To the contrary, I think you enjoyed it and condone it.

Posted: 12/2/2008 10:33 AM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


Ragtime, - that hit was TOTALLY unnecessary - period!! If you WANT to see it another way - so be it. The officials were "right there" - a hell of a lot closer that you or I, - and threw an instant flag. End of discussion, ...

Posted: 12/2/2008 12:06 PM

Re: Welker hit Dirty or Good Football 


It's only a matter of time before some team like the Steelers cripples someone for life deliberately. And then watch the league change its tune. Not because of the fans - but because an owner just lost tens of millions of dollars of value. This isn't an isolated incident with the Steelers - and it shouldn't be part of football. The game is plenty violent as it is without some teams trying to end other player's careers.
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