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Josh McDaniels

Posted: 7/10/2008 12:56 PM

Josh McDaniels 


NT

    What grade would you give McDaniels Performance?

  1. Poll closed on 07/31/2008
  2. A (best grade): 8 votes
  3. B: 20 votes
  4. C: 9 votes
  5. D: 6 votes
  6. E (worse grade): 3 votes

Last edited 7/12/2008 2:39 AM by VinatieriDefinesClutch

Posted: 7/10/2008 1:51 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 


Thats my A vote ! @ 18  - 1...........well.................. thing is I wouldn't follow him across the street after the 2/3/08 implosion. BUT.................then again the G-Men did put together the "Perfect Storm" in Arizona.
Expect more of the same so long as we don't have to break out too much Geritol !

Posted: 7/10/2008 2:08 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 


IMHO Josh McDaniels could not adjust his damn belt never mind adjust to what the opposing defensive coordinator was doing. Go deep Randy , go under Wes and go deeper Randy is not my definition of a good Offensive coordinator.

When the Ravens, Eagles and Giants put up great game plans the Patriots offense stunk because the Patriots could not adjust to what they were doing.  In the playoffs SD's defense looked better than it did earlier in the year against the Patriots. A lot better the SECOND time around after their adjustments. The worst thing that happened to the Patriots was to play the Giants in the regular season. The Giants made adjustments, McDaniels figured the same game plan would work. A Patriot trait has been if we lose to you, we'll get you the second time around because of the adjustments by the coaching staff. Not happening with McNuggett, I mean McDaniels at the helm.

Posted: 7/10/2008 2:18 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 


I'm glad you posted NEP because when I saw that "A" vote I was very surprised. I can't say I agree with you, though.

While I'm not as down on McDaniels as Morph is, his point about adjustments is right on. It's particularly disturbing because the Patriots under Belichick have been known for making great adjustments throughout the game. When most coaches are making adjustments at half time, Belichick has often made adjustments starting with a team's 3rd possession. McDaniels hasn't exhibited that ability and at times seems to fall back on a few "go to" options even when they haven't been working.

For what it's worth, I gave him a "C".

Posted: 7/10/2008 4:35 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



Morpheus11 wrote:

IMHO Josh McDaniels could not adjust his damn belt never mind adjust to what the opposing defensive coordinator was doing. Go deep Randy , go under Wes and go deeper Randy is not my definition of a good Offensive coordinator.

When the Ravens, Eagles and Giants put up great game plans the Patriots offense stunk because the Patriots could not adjust to what they were doing.  In the playoffs SD's defense looked better than it did earlier in the year against the Patriots. A lot better the SECOND time around after their adjustments. The worst thing that happened to the Patriots was to play the Giants in the regular season. The Giants made adjustments, McDaniels figured the same game plan would work. A Patriot trait has been if we lose to you, we'll get you the second time around because of the adjustments by the coaching staff. Not happening with McNuggett, I mean McDaniels at the helm.


Ravens, Eagles & Giants:  NE stold the Raven game and there is a bench warrent our for the arrest of the entire team in Blato. Did either team play well that day? Balto has an "over-the-hill" gang too.

Eagles: All's I remember about the Eagle game is I LOST big time on the spread! I think I remember the game as booring too as the NEP never got it in gear. You say due to Eagle defense and adjustments. Hey, thats OK.... Who won the game?

Giants Reg. Season: Now, this was football being played at it's highest and finest level. What, a 3 or 4 point W for NEP....could have gone either way kinda like the SB did. Remember now, Moss dropped the first bomb and TB came rite back at him with another which he cought. Remember?

I would have relieved MickeyD by now for a lack of creativity in SB. Hard to me to say it but, hey 18 - 1 = delivering results. In a record setting year the 'old saying go's:
" DANCE WITH THE LADY YOU INVITED TO THE BALL "  Brady to Moss worked all year. Brady to Welker worked all year.  Ignore Stallworth worked all year. Ignore NE's enemic running game worked all year.  1 TD production out of the tight end after week 5 when he got injured.
I am not a Mickey D fan at all. Why? Way too young & inexperienced. I ask if he is someone's favorite son?
Bottom Line: The NEP's OL suck__! Mickey D. did not suite up and play.
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Posted: 7/10/2008 7:39 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



Morpheus11 wrote:

IMHO Josh McDaniels could not adjust his damn belt never mind adjust to what the opposing defensive coordinator was doing. Go deep Randy , go under Wes and go deeper Randy is not my definition of a good Offensive coordinator.

When the Ravens, Eagles and Giants put up great game plans the Patriots offense stunk because the Patriots could not adjust to what they were doing.  In the playoffs SD's defense looked better than it did earlier in the year against the Patriots. A lot better the SECOND time around after their adjustments. The worst thing that happened to the Patriots was to play the Giants in the regular season. The Giants made adjustments, McDaniels figured the same game plan would work. A Patriot trait has been if we lose to you, we'll get you the second time around because of the adjustments by the coaching staff. Not happening with McNuggett, I mean McDaniels at the helm.

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't we set passing and point records last year and were the most feared offense in the league. Also won 18 straight. Granted in the super bowl we didn't ajust very well, but it was a very good season, I don't think you can throw him under the bus until you could do the job, are you a coach?  Get a Grip!!!!

Posted: 7/10/2008 7:48 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 


I gave him a "B", - the running game was never the same after Morris got hurt. I just (really) hope they don't "live by the long bomb" this year.

Posted: 7/11/2008 6:38 AM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



Hunter07 wrote: I gave him a "B", - the running game was never the same after Morris got hurt. I just (really) hope they don't "live by the long bomb" this year.
Hunter07................... Some failed to see it. I agree >>100% that the run game suffered when Morris went down AND BB failed to bring in a replacement.

Hey: Both should be up and ready to go. Also, NE starts the year WITH Seymour and Harrison. Barring any surprises that is !

Posted: 7/11/2008 6:42 AM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 


Strategic error ???

Why havn't the NEP signed or invited an OL to camp? Excuse the expression kids but, they are said to be like journeymen hockey players, a dime a dozen. The precious ones have heart and health!

Posted: 7/11/2008 9:27 AM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 


I love the fact that the Pat's went 18-1 and that they broke all sorts of records.  The bottom line is winning the game that counts and when your OC is still calling deep pass routes when your QB is getting mugged every play, then this guy is not ready for prime time.

 

Sorry, but I give much of the credit to the Pat's record breaking offensive year last year to Brady & Co.  Never before had Brady had the weapons he had and he showed what he could do with better than journeyman receivers.  When Morris went down, the Pat's offence became very predictable and eventually smart D coordinators were able to counter the deep ball threat.

 

18 and 1 is great as long as that 1 is not the last game of the year.  McDanials had no asnwers for what was thrown at him in the SB and his inexperience cost the Pat's a chance at history.  Nothing personal, just think he does not have the experience to be on this type of stage when the game is on the line.

Posted: 7/11/2008 1:32 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



FLAPatsFan wrote:

I love the fact that the Pat's went 18-1 and that they broke all sorts of records.  The bottom line is winning the game that counts and when your OC is still calling deep pass routes when your QB is getting mugged every play, then this guy is not ready for prime time.

 

Sorry, but I give much of the credit to the Pat's record breaking offensive year last year to Brady & Co.  Never before had Brady had the weapons he had and he showed what he could do with better than journeyman receivers.  When Morris went down, the Pat's offence became very predictable and eventually smart D coordinators were able to counter the deep ball threat.

 

18 and 1 is great as long as that 1 is not the last game of the year.  McDanials had no asnwers for what was thrown at him in the SB and his inexperience cost the Pat's a chance at history.  Nothing personal, just think he does not have the experience to be on this type of stage when the game is on the line.

Wondering if bowmag read this response. Or maybe he is still wondering if I'm a coach since coached and not people who played teh game or people who analyze the games or annoucers or anyone else knows football. I guess even bad coaches know more about football than anyone else.

I too give more credit to Brady and Co than Mcnugget. One of the best points FLAPatfans made is: your OC is still calling deep pass routes when your QB is getting mugged every play, then this guy is not ready for prime time.

Wait your not a coach FLA! You and me and everyone else who said the Patriots were outcoached in that game must be wrong.

A good OC who is seeing the OL getting killed would try to adjust his play calling to keep the defense off balance...hey he may even call a few plays to let the defenses aggressiveness play against them.

I'm not a coach so when I wonder why in the blue hell the OC was having Brady throw bombs for touchdowns instead of tryin to AT LEAST get witin field goal range to tie the game. Wait I'm not a coach so that means that just because the Patriots were down by 3 a field goal does them no good.

McDaniels does not make adjustements and if he does he does not make them well.  Listenin to an sundicated talk show last night one of the NFL analysts said that the Patriots were outcoached in the game (not going to listen to the announcer anymore because he is not a coach)

The Patriots IMHO broke the offensibe scoring records in spite of McNugget.  Yes I know Weiss is not walking through that door anymore...but I do know the Giants DC would not have outcoached Weiss like that. Charlie would have called a couple of plays to put the Giants back on their heels and had them adjusting.

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Posted: 7/11/2008 11:29 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 


I agree that the game calling was suspect in the Super Bowl, but to put it totally on the OC I think is BS. The O line could't block anybody, the Defense could't make the stops when called on, so should the O line coach and the Defensive coach also be thrown out with the trash? We were leading the game with 2 minutes and change and should have had it wrapped up, but the Defence dropped the ball and could't get it done, I've never seen the crazy plays like that before. So you can't blame it all on the Offensive coach, I think BB knows more about football then we do and he must see something in Josh McDaniels that the rest of us experts can't seem to see, he had control in the the game to make changes if he felt one of the coaches was not doing his job enough to win the game. I think McDaniel did a darn good job overall and should only be better this year, lets move on from last year and get ready for another run at the Super Bowl, and try to look at the loss in last year Super Bowl with a realistic view and not entirely on emotions, there was a lot that happened in last years season and in the final game and you can't lay it in one persons lap. Even though we like to act like we know it all, were not coaches if we were would we be on this forum spitting out our Bull Sh-t or on the sidelines impressing everyone with our great football minds. I for one will be moving on from last year and will embrace the New England Patriots football team and ALL the coaches for a great 2008 season to come. I've heard enough complaing from some on here who think they know more then the coaches, but demonstrate they go more with emotions then, in my opinion sound football understanding.  Sorry!! 

Posted: 7/12/2008 8:00 AM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



bowmag701 wrote: I agree that the game calling was suspect in the Super Bowl, but to put it totally on the OC I think is BS. The O line could't block anybody, the Defense could't make the stops when called on, so should the O line coach and the Defensive coach also be thrown out with the trash? We were leading the game with 2 minutes and change and should have had it wrapped up, but the Defence dropped the ball and could't get it done, I've never seen the crazy plays like that before. So you can't blame it all on the Offensive coach, I think BB knows more about football then we do and he must see something in Josh McDaniels that the rest of us experts can't seem to see, he had control in the the game to make changes if he felt one of the coaches was not doing his job enough to win the game. I think McDaniel did a darn good job overall and should only be better this year, lets move on from last year and get ready for another run at the Super Bowl, and try to look at the loss in last year Super Bowl with a realistic view and not entirely on emotions, there was a lot that happened in last years season and in the final game and you can't lay it in one persons lap. Even though we like to act like we know it all, were not coaches if we were would we be on this forum spitting out our Bull Sh-t or on the sidelines impressing everyone with our great football minds. I for one will be moving on from last year and will embrace the New England Patriots football team and ALL the coaches for a great 2008 season to come. I've heard enough complaing from some on here who think they know more then the coaches, but demonstrate they go more with emotions then, in my opinion sound football understanding.  Sorry!! 
With all due respect, you're full of crap.  I don't think anyone on this thread is talking just about the SB and blaming poor Josh over his incompetance in that particular game.  I personally already mentioned that the O line did not show up for the SB game and that is one reason why they lost.  The D gave up 17 points and certainly had their chances to make a stop on the last drive, but didn't.  With the weapons that the Pat's had on offense last year, I expected a better showing from the O in the SB.  And I have moved on, if you don't like the topic of the thread, don't respond.

The entire point that I was trying to make along with Morph I believe was that McDaniels does not make quick adjustments to counteract what some of the better defenses were throwing at the Pat's at the end of the year.  Morph even went as far as comparing the halftime adjustments that Charlie Weis used to make.  Those were the days when the offense (minus the weapons like Moss & Welker) would make adjustments at halftime and own the third quarter.

Last year with the Pat's O blowing everyone out by half time, what adjustments did they need to make?  When the Defenses started figuring things out towards the end of the year (Baltimore & Philly) the games were closer and the Pat's were lucky to win.

All I am saying is I don't think this guy McDaniels has ever shown he can make adjustments at half time or any time for that matter, to combat what the good D coordinators are doing to take away what the Pat's are trying to do.  I'm moving on alright but with the reality that when faced with another tough defense that is giving the Pat's O trouble, we should not expect any real Offensive adjustments to counteract what that D is doing by McDaniels.

Posted: 7/12/2008 8:38 AM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



FLAPatsFan wrote:
bowmag701 wrote: I agree that the game calling was suspect in the Super Bowl, but to put it totally on the OC I think is BS. The O line could't block anybody, the Defense could't make the stops when called on, so should the O line coach and the Defensive coach also be thrown out with the trash? We were leading the game with 2 minutes and change and should have had it wrapped up, but the Defence dropped the ball and could't get it done, I've never seen the crazy plays like that before. So you can't blame it all on the Offensive coach, I think BB knows more about football then we do and he must see something in Josh McDaniels that the rest of us experts can't seem to see, he had control in the the game to make changes if he felt one of the coaches was not doing his job enough to win the game. I think McDaniel did a darn good job overall and should only be better this year, lets move on from last year and get ready for another run at the Super Bowl, and try to look at the loss in last year Super Bowl with a realistic view and not entirely on emotions, there was a lot that happened in last years season and in the final game and you can't lay it in one persons lap. Even though we like to act like we know it all, were not coaches if we were would we be on this forum spitting out our Bull Sh-t or on the sidelines impressing everyone with our great football minds. I for one will be moving on from last year and will embrace the New England Patriots football team and ALL the coaches for a great 2008 season to come. I've heard enough complaing from some on here who think they know more then the coaches, but demonstrate they go more with emotions then, in my opinion sound football understanding.  Sorry!! 
With all due respect, you're full of crap.  I don't think anyone on this thread is talking just about the SB and blaming poor Josh over his incompetance in that particular game.  I personally already mentioned that the O line did not show up for the SB game and that is one reason why they lost.  The D gave up 17 points and certainly had their chances to make a stop on the last drive, but didn't.  With the weapons that the Pat's had on offense last year, I expected a better showing from the O in the SB.  And I have moved on, if you don't like the topic of the thread, don't respond.

The entire point that I was trying to make along with Morph I believe was that McDaniels does not make quick adjustments to counteract what some of the better defenses were throwing at the Pat's at the end of the year.  Morph even went as far as comparing the halftime adjustments that Charlie Weis used to make.  Those were the days when the offense (minus the weapons like Moss & Welker) would make adjustments at halftime and own the third quarter.

Last year with the Pat's O blowing everyone out by half time, what adjustments did they need to make?  When the Defenses started figuring things out towards the end of the year (Baltimore & Philly) the games were closer and the Pat's were lucky to win.

All I am saying is I don't think this guy McDaniels has ever shown he can make adjustments at half time or any time for that matter, to combat what the good D coordinators are doing to take away what the Pat's are trying to do.  I'm moving on alright but with the reality that when faced with another tough defense that is giving the Pat's O trouble, we should not expect any real Offensive adjustments to counteract what that D is doing by McDaniels.
Since Charlie Weis's name was brought up, I have the following question for all - Do you think McDaniels' shortcomings is more: a) a product of inexperience (after all, CW probably has more years of football related experience than McD has been alive);  b) inherent lack of knowledge/character flaws issues; or c) a combination of both?

Posted: 7/12/2008 11:19 AM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 


I think it is "C" definately a combination of both.  My thinking has always been that for God's sake you have maybe one of the best clutch QB's of all time with Brady and you have a guy as OC with less experience than your QB.  It doesn't make sense to me.

Could McDaniels be very good down the road?  Sure if he has learned anything from his mistakes.  But Brady and company will not be around forever and just getting to the SB is tough enough.  BB must have confidence in him otherwise we would see a new face as OC this year.  I gotta wonder though how long a leash BB will give McDaniels if they run into the same issues this year.

Just looking forward to another year and being in contention.  I really hope he does well and the Pat's roll through the regular season again, but until he proves to me that he can match wits with the better D coordinators and make adjustments on the fly, then in my mind his ability to handle an NFL offense will be in question.

 

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Posted: 7/12/2008 11:39 AM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



FLAPatsFan wrote:
bowmag701 wrote: I agree that the game calling was suspect in the Super Bowl, but to put it totally on the OC I think is BS. The O line could't block anybody, the Defense could't make the stops when called on, so should the O line coach and the Defensive coach also be thrown out with the trash? We were leading the game with 2 minutes and change and should have had it wrapped up, but the Defence dropped the ball and could't get it done, I've never seen the crazy plays like that before. So you can't blame it all on the Offensive coach, I think BB knows more about football then we do and he must see something in Josh McDaniels that the rest of us experts can't seem to see, he had control in the the game to make changes if he felt one of the coaches was not doing his job enough to win the game. I think McDaniel did a darn good job overall and should only be better this year, lets move on from last year and get ready for another run at the Super Bowl, and try to look at the loss in last year Super Bowl with a realistic view and not entirely on emotions, there was a lot that happened in last years season and in the final game and you can't lay it in one persons lap. Even though we like to act like we know it all, were not coaches if we were would we be on this forum spitting out our Bull Sh-t or on the sidelines impressing everyone with our great football minds. I for one will be moving on from last year and will embrace the New England Patriots football team and ALL the coaches for a great 2008 season to come. I've heard enough complaing from some on here who think they know more then the coaches, but demonstrate they go more with emotions then, in my opinion sound football understanding.  Sorry!! 
With all due respect, you're full of crap.  I don't think anyone on this thread is talking just about the SB and blaming poor Josh over his incompetance in that particular game.  I personally already mentioned that the O line did not show up for the SB game and that is one reason why they lost.  The D gave up 17 points and certainly had their chances to make a stop on the last drive, but didn't.  With the weapons that the Pat's had on offense last year, I expected a better showing from the O in the SB.  And I have moved on, if you don't like the topic of the thread, don't respond.

The entire point that I was trying to make along with Morph I believe was that McDaniels does not make quick adjustments to counteract what some of the better defenses were throwing at the Pat's at the end of the year.  Morph even went as far as comparing the halftime adjustments that Charlie Weis used to make.  Those were the days when the offense (minus the weapons like Moss & Welker) would make adjustments at halftime and own the third quarter.

Last year with the Pat's O blowing everyone out by half time, what adjustments did they need to make?  When the Defenses started figuring things out towards the end of the year (Baltimore & Philly) the games were closer and the Pat's were lucky to win.

All I am saying is I don't think this guy McDaniels has ever shown he can make adjustments at half time or any time for that matter, to combat what the good D coordinators are doing to take away what the Pat's are trying to do.  I'm moving on alright but with the reality that when faced with another tough defense that is giving the Pat's O trouble, we should not expect any real Offensive adjustments to counteract what that D is doing by McDaniels.

Good Morning, I like the topic fine, it's a good discussion. The fact you feel I'm full of crap is Ok, my wife might agree with you at times, maybe someone would say the same thing in referance to you also. With that being said, I do agree his ablity to ajust on the fly is a little weak at this point. But my point was that you can't put the entire loss of the Super Bowl on his shoulders, it was a team effert or the lack there of. He's young and will only improve in my opinion, again BB must see something in him, a point you and others failed to respond to, which I find interesting. Also you fail to anser the ? on the other coaches short comings in the same game, including BB himself. I think some are just a little to eager to make him the scapegoat and fail to see the other shortcomings of that game. No he's not Charlie Wiess, but again it's time to move on I don't think he'll be back in New England anytime soon. When you have Randy Moss, Welker, Brady and Co, and set and had a record setting season, does it really make sense to stop going to what got you there in the first place, again we were leading the game with just a little over 2 minutes to go and should have been able to stop them, we had are chances. Where is your displesure with the Defenses coaches? This is just my opinion and its your right to disagree with it, as it is my right to disagree with yours, I'm just pointing out the fact that it was't entirely Josh McDanials short comings that cost us that game.

Posted: 7/12/2008 11:51 AM

Re: Josh McDaniels 


Begrudgingly gave an A.  The team broke how many offensive records and went undefeated.  If that isn't an A, noone should ever deserve an A.

Things that I didn't like about McDaniels is his offense was predictable, but even still it was effective.  He had difficulty adjusting and didn't want to waste time or plays on establishing the run.  I would like to see the running game move involved this year.

But, the guy only smashed a bunch of offensive records and the 2007 Patriots will go down as the most prolific offenses ever.  That is an A in my book.

Posted: 7/12/2008 12:10 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



bowmag701 wrote:
FLAPatsFan wrote:
bowmag701 wrote: I agree that the game calling was suspect in the Super Bowl, but to put it totally on the OC I think is BS. The O line could't block anybody, the Defense could't make the stops when called on, so should the O line coach and the Defensive coach also be thrown out with the trash? We were leading the game with 2 minutes and change and should have had it wrapped up, but the Defence dropped the ball and could't get it done, I've never seen the crazy plays like that before. So you can't blame it all on the Offensive coach, I think BB knows more about football then we do and he must see something in Josh McDaniels that the rest of us experts can't seem to see, he had control in the the game to make changes if he felt one of the coaches was not doing his job enough to win the game. I think McDaniel did a darn good job overall and should only be better this year, lets move on from last year and get ready for another run at the Super Bowl, and try to look at the loss in last year Super Bowl with a realistic view and not entirely on emotions, there was a lot that happened in last years season and in the final game and you can't lay it in one persons lap. Even though we like to act like we know it all, were not coaches if we were would we be on this forum spitting out our Bull Sh-t or on the sidelines impressing everyone with our great football minds. I for one will be moving on from last year and will embrace the New England Patriots football team and ALL the coaches for a great 2008 season to come. I've heard enough complaing from some on here who think they know more then the coaches, but demonstrate they go more with emotions then, in my opinion sound football understanding.  Sorry!! 
With all due respect, you're full of crap.  I don't think anyone on this thread is talking just about the SB and blaming poor Josh over his incompetance in that particular game.  I personally already mentioned that the O line did not show up for the SB game and that is one reason why they lost.  The D gave up 17 points and certainly had their chances to make a stop on the last drive, but didn't.  With the weapons that the Pat's had on offense last year, I expected a better showing from the O in the SB.  And I have moved on, if you don't like the topic of the thread, don't respond.

The entire point that I was trying to make along with Morph I believe was that McDaniels does not make quick adjustments to counteract what some of the better defenses were throwing at the Pat's at the end of the year.  Morph even went as far as comparing the halftime adjustments that Charlie Weis used to make.  Those were the days when the offense (minus the weapons like Moss & Welker) would make adjustments at halftime and own the third quarter.

Last year with the Pat's O blowing everyone out by half time, what adjustments did they need to make?  When the Defenses started figuring things out towards the end of the year (Baltimore & Philly) the games were closer and the Pat's were lucky to win.

All I am saying is I don't think this guy McDaniels has ever shown he can make adjustments at half time or any time for that matter, to combat what the good D coordinators are doing to take away what the Pat's are trying to do.  I'm moving on alright but with the reality that when faced with another tough defense that is giving the Pat's O trouble, we should not expect any real Offensive adjustments to counteract what that D is doing by McDaniels.

Good Morning, I like the topic fine, it's a good discussion. The fact you feel I'm full of crap is Ok, my wife might agree with you at times, maybe someone would say the same thing in referance to you also. With that being said, I do agree his ablity to ajust on the fly is a little weak at this point. But my point was that you can't put the entire loss of the Super Bowl on his shoulders, it was a team effert or the lack there of. He's young and will only improve in my opinion, again BB must see something in him, a point you and others failed to respond to, which I find interesting. Also you fail to anser the ? on the other coaches short comings in the same game, including BB himself. I think some are just a little to eager to make him the scapegoat and fail to see the other shortcomings of that game. No he's not Charlie Wiess, but again it's time to move on I don't think he'll be back in New England anytime soon. When you have Randy Moss, Welker, Brady and Co, and set and had a record setting season, does it really make sense to stop going to what got you there in the first place, again we were leading the game with just a little over 2 minutes to go and should have been able to stop them, we had are chances. Where is your displesure with the Defenses coaches? This is just my opinion and its your right to disagree with it, as it is my right to disagree with yours, I'm just pointing out the fact that it was't entirely Josh McDanials short comings that cost us that game.
Hey my friend, there is no doubt I'm full of crap too.  You have to read the posts a little more carefully.  I in no way heap all the blame for the SB loss on McDaniels.  I question why BB did not go for a field goal (indoors) when he could have put more points on the board.  I do not think the D played badly at all so not stopping NY on that last drive was literally just a matter of inches.  (Samuels near interception and the almost sack before the hail mary pass to Tyree)

I disagree with you that if the D you are playing is pinning their ears back and taking away what has been successful all season (Brady to Moss & Welker) the job of the OC is to find another way to move the ball and exploit them in some way instead of beating your head against a wall with plays that are not working.  Or for that matter play into the strengths of the D you are playing against.

I guess the larger point that I have been trying to make all along is going forward will Mcdaniels be able to handle similar situations that come up in the future where the opposing D will begin taking away the favoite weapons of Brady.  Will McDaniela call plays that will slow down the pass rush or play into their hands by calling deep, long developing pass plays while his HOF QB gets his butt kicked.  I can't answer that yet, but like I said above, I hope he has learned something along the way and this year will prove me wrong.
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:42 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 


Yes Sir, I did read your posts, along with the other ones. It was my impression you were not happy with the OC and mainly plamed him for our coming up short in the Super Bowl. Was I mistaken? Again I feel you have go with your strengths and what got you there. Yes, I too wondered why we stoped running the ball in the second half when I thought we had some success with it or maybe had some screen plays which might have helped to slow down the pass rush, but for what ever reason we didn't. They played like that all season, with almost an overblown ego, and with good reason, no one stopped them all year and they contiued that mind set in the Super Bowl. That was a team mindset, not just an Offenseive cordinaters will. I think the entire team will have learned from it and should all better this season. If McDanials fails to learn from the experiance then I would agree with you and is not ready for primetime. Lets wait and see. Fair Enough?

Posted: 7/12/2008 3:24 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



FLAPatsFan wrote:

I think it is "C" definately a combination of both.  My thinking has always been that for God's sake you have maybe one of the best clutch QB's of all time with Brady and you have a guy as OC with less experience than your QB.  It doesn't make sense to me.

Could McDaniels be very good down the road?  Sure if he has learned anything from his mistakes.  But Brady and company will not be around forever and just getting to the SB is tough enough.  BB must have confidence in him otherwise we would see a new face as OC this year.  I gotta wonder though how long a leash BB will give McDaniels if they run into the same issues this year.

Just looking forward to another year and being in contention.  I really hope he does well and the Pat's roll through the regular season again, but until he proves to me that he can match wits with the better D coordinators and make adjustments on the fly, then in my mind his ability to handle an NFL offense will be in question.

 

Good answer. Given that, IMHO, BB brought in Dom Capers as a "special assistant" to provide a level of expertise in the Pats' defense that hasn't been there since Romeo Crennel left for Cleveland - if McD falters again this season, do you think BB will bring in the offensive equivalent to Capers to back up McD or simply replace him outright?

Posted: 7/12/2008 3:37 PM

Re: Josh MsDaniels 



Hunter07 wrote: I gave him a "B", - the running game was never the same after Morris got hurt. I just (really) hope they don't "live by the long bomb" this year.


i was thinking the same thing hunter

without morris the whole offense went into a bombs away mode.  i gave him a b, because he did guide them to one of the best performances by an offense eva

 

 

Posted: 7/12/2008 4:15 PM

Re: Josh McDaniels 



stealthdog666 wrote:

Begrudgingly gave an A.  The team broke how many offensive records and went undefeated.  If that isn't an A, noone should ever deserve an A.

Things that I didn't like about McDaniels is his offense was predictable, but even still it was effective.  He had difficulty adjusting and didn't want to waste time or plays on establishing the run.  I would like to see the running game move involved this year.

But, the guy only smashed a bunch of offensive records and the 2007 Patriots will go down as the most prolific offenses ever.  That is an A in my book.

To me this is a line of reasoning that makes no sense.  So what if the team put up great numbers?  If he wasn't the main reason they put up those numbers, and was the reason the offense flunked down the stretch, he doesn't deserve credit, does he?

Posted: 7/13/2008 6:05 AM

Re: Josh McDaniels 


A great conversation! Everybody please.......stop and think for a moment. Anybody our there in "fairly knowlegable about football land" think for a second that BB wasn't calling the plays? Personally I would imagine Josh McDaniels is a fine young man. Too young and inexperienced for a Patriot Team very much in it's thick and prime. Even going into this season, the best he can bring is limited experience.
Brady not throwing to Stallworth was not McDaniel's doing. Even had me fooled for a while.
Coming out of camp last year, we were hearing slow to learn the play book and, still hamapered by an old injury, bla, bla bla!!! Stallworth possessed a two pronged skill-set. Hands to catch the ball and the ability to make yardage after the catch.
Anybody else notice last years stats? Do you really think that Stallworth was tied with Moss for the most yards agained after a catch. [ appx. 15.2]
Naaaaaaa..........the choice of who stays and who doesn't was already made. I really believe McDaniels was doing what he was told to do, thus I gave him an A.

Posted: 7/13/2008 7:03 AM

Re: Josh McDaniels 


I don't know NEP, I can't count how many times after a defensive series I saw the shots from the sidelines where BB was talking to the defensive unit, totally uninvolved with what the O was doing at the time.

 

I can't ever remember him doing the same when the O was on the bench after a three and out.  I"m sure BB checks and signs off on the O game plans, but he has always been much more involved with the D side of the ball.

 

The Pat's non use of Stallworth last year baffled me too.  The guy was great after the catch but he was barely used most of the time.  You think it was a deliberate effort to NOT use him?  Why, to get him out of town?  Why would this be BB call and not McDaniels?

Posted: 7/13/2008 7:37 AM

Re: Josh McDaniels 



FLAPatsFan wrote:

I don't know NEP, I can't count how many times after a defensive series I saw the shots from the sidelines where BB was talking to the defensive unit, totally uninvolved with what the O was doing at the time.

 

I can't ever remember him doing the same when the O was on the bench after a three and out.  I"m sure BB checks and signs off on the O game plans, but he has always been much more involved with the D side of the ball.

 

The Pat's non use of Stallworth last year baffled me too.  The guy was great after the catch but he was barely used most of the time.  You think it was a deliberate effort to NOT use him?  Why, to get him out of town?  Why would this be BB call and not McDaniels?


BB's roots are on the defensive side of the ball. In my eyes Stallworth was colored gone from the get-go. Shame too because we never saw what he can do. Cleveland will get the most out of that WR. If I were to guess, I'de say they were surprised Moss signed with them!! Remember, they signed Stallworth first, last year. {and that was after Welker]

Posted: 7/13/2008 12:39 PM

Re: Josh McDaniels 



sean10mm wrote:
stealthdog666 wrote:

Begrudgingly gave an A.  The team broke how many offensive records and went undefeated.  If that isn't an A, noone should ever deserve an A.

Things that I didn't like about McDaniels is his offense was predictable, but even still it was effective.  He had difficulty adjusting and didn't want to waste time or plays on establishing the run.  I would like to see the running game move involved this year.

But, the guy only smashed a bunch of offensive records and the 2007 Patriots will go down as the most prolific offenses ever.  That is an A in my book.

To me this is a line of reasoning that makes no sense.  So what if the team put up great numbers?  If he wasn't the main reason they put up those numbers, and was the reason the offense flunked down the stretch, he doesn't deserve credit, does he?

You can't not give the guy credit for success the Patriots had but then blame him for their failures.  It doesn't work that way.

Posted: 7/13/2008 5:03 PM

Re: Josh McDaniels 


Although all of us may or may not agree...great discussion.

As FlaPatfan and I have stated (he summed up what I have said very well) one of the problems with McDaniels is that he doesn't make adjustments well if at all. If he can't make adjusments having talent like Moss and Stallworth around, what wil happen when the Patriots have LESS talented offensive player and a lack of playmakers.

Weis and Brady have done it with less. As FLA pointed out many times the Patriots owned the 3rd quarters because of halftime adjustments.

If Weiss was the OF of the Patriots during the Superbowl you can damn well be sure adjustments would have been made and caused the Giants to make adjustmenst they never made in the Super Bowl (they didn't have too make many of any adjustments because the Patriots never did figure out what they were doing.)

As for emotions being part of what I said..negative, I was talking about McDaniels not making adjustments all DURING the 16-0 regular season.

IMHO I'm not sure if McDaniels will ever amount to much and I am shocked he is still here. I wish he had went to ATL as their coach.

Posted: 7/13/2008 5:31 PM

Re: Josh McDaniels 


As good as their offensive record was last year, - and it was good. I have to say, in earlier years, at least for me, - watching the defense stop another team, time after time, just plain shutting them down, especially late in the game, - was far more exciting. Then watching Brady & co. go back on the field, - and score using a short pass/run/ball control offense - was as good as it gets.

Posted: 7/13/2008 6:22 PM

Re: Josh McDaniels 



FLAPatsFan wrote:

I don't know NEP, I can't count how many times after a defensive series I saw the shots from the sidelines where BB was talking to the defensive unit, totally uninvolved with what the O was doing at the time.

 

I can't ever remember him doing the same when the O was on the bench after a three and out.  I"m sure BB checks and signs off on the O game plans, but he has always been much more involved with the D side of the ball.

 

The Pat's non use of Stallworth last year baffled me too.  The guy was great after the catch but he was barely used most of the time.  You think it was a deliberate effort to NOT use him?  Why, to get him out of town?  Why would this be BB call and not McDaniels?


Deliberate..............We can never be sure of that. Looking back, how many times was he thrown to? He was underutilized all season - thats on Belicheck. Hey it's just another difficult decision great people have to make. You got Welker and other WR's to throw to. Several good one's............

Blind; Look I'm no football analyst but, this I am sure of............Few if any adjustments are made when you are ahead in professional sports. Sorta like it ain't broken so lets stay with it.

Fans seem to be willing to let those who suited up and played, off the hook. What about the OL ??? All 5 of them having a bad day............We 'aught to be concerned about the fact that NE seems to be accepting that.[bad day] One injury early up in the game and they collapse in the most important game of the year?  Where was the bench strength?

AAHHaaaaaaaaa.......................... It's over. These are the things that will effect the outcome of this years games.

Posted: 7/14/2008 7:38 AM

Re: Josh McDaniels 



usernameNEP wrote:
FLAPatsFan wrote:

I don't know NEP, I can't count how many times after a defensive series I saw the shots from the sidelines where BB was talking to the defensive unit, totally uninvolved with what the O was doing at the time.

 

I can't ever remember him doing the same when the O was on the bench after a three and out.  I"m sure BB checks and signs off on the O game plans, but he has always been much more involved with the D side of the ball.

 

The Pat's non use of Stallworth last year baffled me too.  The guy was great after the catch but he was barely used most of the time.  You think it was a deliberate effort to NOT use him?  Why, to get him out of town?  Why would this be BB call and not McDaniels?


Deliberate..............We can never be sure of that. Looking back, how many times was he thrown to? He was underutilized all season - thats on Belicheck. Hey it's just another difficult decision great people have to make. You got Welker and other WR's to throw to. Several good one's............

Blind; Look I'm no football analyst but, this I am sure of............Few if any adjustments are made when you are ahead in professional sports. Sorta like it ain't broken so lets stay with it.

Fans seem to be willing to let those who suited up and played, off the hook. What about the OL ??? All 5 of them having a bad day............We 'aught to be concerned about the fact that NE seems to be accepting that.[bad day] One injury early up in the game and they collapse in the most important game of the year?  Where was the bench strength?

AAHHaaaaaaaaa.......................... It's over. These are the things that will effect the outcome of this years games.
I don't think I ever said the entire blame for the SB loss was on McDaniels, as a matter of fact I said at one time the O-line couldn't block a breeze all day.  Most BIG games I have seen the Pat's play, they have looked well prepared for the game, I didn't get the same feeling with the SB.  Was it the Spygate distractions?  Was it NY juts playing better on both sides of the ball?  Was it the wearing down mentally of an undefeated season going into the biggest game of the year?  Whatever it was, BB shoulders much of that blame because he is the guy at the top.

But going forward, can anyone trust McDaniels to make adjustments at any time during any game when the D they are playing against takes away one or two of the main pieces of his offensive attack?  Is he bright enough or have enough experience to know what to do in order to counteract what the Defenses are trying to take away?

It took about half the season last year for the league to figure out Moss was not washed up as they were getting burned deep every game.  When good D coordinators figured out how to slow the offense down, McDaniels was very slow to react and find other ways to move the ball.  I am anxious to see how 2008 plays out and see what if anything McDaniels has learned from the SB.  I think he will be better than last year with the play calling and attacking defenses, but time will tell when the games get close or in the playoffs when it's win or go home.
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