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Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch

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Posted: 12/11/2012 8:13 PM

Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


The time has come and gone, Here's to the 2014 Season.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 8:53 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch Post Rating (2 votes)



This just has a real bad feel to it. 

Stallworth was not limping around right after the catch (although he also did not go back into the lineup). He also talked to Reporters after the game and wasn't limping around badly then.  No one who saw him last night observed any physical issue with him.

So just how bad could his alleged "injury" really be? 

Why couldn't he just sit out a week or two and rest?   Why is Belichick in such a hurry to cut the guy off the Team so fast?? 

If there's no limp, then it can't be anything all that bad.  Remember Gronk had a very bad high ankle sprain in the playoffs (limping), and then still played in the Super Bowl anyway (though not at full strength).   Same thing with Tom Brady in 2001. But Donte Stallworth had no limp, and was in good spirits last night.


So is there a backstory to this move?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there is:

1.  According to commentary on ESPN, Stallworth was asked if there was any difference in Tom Brady now from when he played with him from 5 years ago.  Stallworth said: "there was no difference at all, other than maybe a couple of wrinkles on his face".  He was then asked if he thought Brady should win the MVP award, and at ESPN they said that Stallworth answered:  "You know we don't answer hypotheticals on the Patriots, otherwise Belichick would call us a moron". This all seems innocent and harmless enough.  But I wonder if Belichick was pissed-off by this comment?  ("Belichick would call us a moron....")  Was that the wrong thing to say?

2.  Stallworth's great 63-yard one-handed catch and TD was the best single individual play that any Patriot WR has made all season long.  It was reminiscent of a Randy Moss type of play.   Now Brandon Lloyd doesn't make downfield catches in very tight coverage like that (and one-handed ones), and then also have the balance and presence of mind to to keep on going, and drag a Defender into the endzone like that.  Deion Branch cannot make that play either.  Neither can Matthew Slater.   No one other than a healthy Gronkowski could make a 60-yard play sort of like that.  Stallworth's catch & play was so spectacular that it might have upstaged the ego of the General Manager:  As it raises the question: Why was Stallworth ever cut in the first place?   How could it ever have been the correct judgement about WRs, to cut this guy in place of other inferior WR talent on the roster?  It's a fair question.


Now maybe I'm wrong, and Stallworth really has some mysterious subtle injury that is not visible when he walks.  But this just doesn't smell right.

Donte Stallworth is now off the Team.  Gone.
And he's not limping...........

Why the hurry to get rid this guy?
Why not at minimum keep him for the Playoffs?

Last edited 12/11/2012 8:56 PM by DerekLarsson2

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Posted: 12/11/2012 9:30 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Ah geez ... poor guy. It's been noted that he didn't play another snap after that 63 yard TD. So maybe he looked OK coming off the field but then when the adrenaline wore off he realized he was hurt.

As for why put him on IR, it's not all that mystifying or suspicious. They need another WR Sunday against the 9'ers. If Stallworth can't play, they need to make a move. If they don't think he'll be 100% for the playoffs, they need to make a move.

Branch's locker was never cleared out - so it always looked like "when" he'd be back rather than "if." I'm seeing some tweets that he felt he was ready to come back this week already.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 10:36 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Whoa ... there's actually another move that was made ... they released Shiancoe as well.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 5:14 AM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


He gets paid on IR, so they may have given him a choice.

 

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Posted: 12/12/2012 9:44 AM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Hopefully that Shiancoe move is a possible return to the Gronk!
dokgonzo wrote: Whoa ... there's actually another move that was made ... they released Shiancoe as well.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 11:13 AM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 



DerekLarsson2 wrote:
This just has a real bad feel to it. 

Stallworth was not limping around right after the catch (although he also did not go back into the lineup). He also talked to Reporters after the game and wasn't limping around badly then.  No one who saw him last night observed any physical issue with him.

So just how bad could his alleged "injury" really be? 

Why couldn't he just sit out a week or two and rest?   Why is Belichick in such a hurry to cut the guy off the Team so fast?? 

If there's no limp, then it can't be anything all that bad.  Remember Gronk had a very bad high ankle sprain in the playoffs (limping), and then still played in the Super Bowl anyway (though not at full strength).   Same thing with Tom Brady in 2001. But Donte Stallworth had no limp, and was in good spirits last night.


So is there a backstory to this move?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there is:

1.  According to commentary on ESPN, Stallworth was asked if there was any difference in Tom Brady now from when he played with him from 5 years ago.  Stallworth said: "there was no difference at all, other than maybe a couple of wrinkles on his face".  He was then asked if he thought Brady should win the MVP award, and at ESPN they said that Stallworth answered:  "You know we don't answer hypotheticals on the Patriots, otherwise Belichick would call us a moron". This all seems innocent and harmless enough.  But I wonder if Belichick was pissed-off by this comment?  ("Belichick would call us a moron....")  Was that the wrong thing to say?

2.  Stallworth's great 63-yard one-handed catch and TD was the best single individual play that any Patriot WR has made all season long.  It was reminiscent of a Randy Moss type of play.   Now Brandon Lloyd doesn't make downfield catches in very tight coverage like that (and one-handed ones), and then also have the balance and presence of mind to to keep on going, and drag a Defender into the endzone like that.  Deion Branch cannot make that play either.  Neither can Matthew Slater.   No one other than a healthy Gronkowski could make a 60-yard play sort of like that.  Stallworth's catch & play was so spectacular that it might have upstaged the ego of the General Manager:  As it raises the question: Why was Stallworth ever cut in the first place?   How could it ever have been the correct judgement about WRs, to cut this guy in place of other inferior WR talent on the roster?  It's a fair question.


Now maybe I'm wrong, and Stallworth really has some mysterious subtle injury that is not visible when he walks.  But this just doesn't smell right.

Donte Stallworth is now off the Team.  Gone.
And he's not limping...........

Why the hurry to get rid this guy?
Why not at minimum keep him for the Playoffs?

Hmmm, I'm not sure if I agree with this one.  BB can be a bit stubborn with some things (and he's sometimes right) but he's never shown an unwillingness to admit mistakes with players that he's let go.  Branch is actually a great example of this - had we signed him to big bucks, I think we would have beaten the Colts in the 2006 AFCCG facing Rex Grossman in the SB.

Stallworth made a great catch and run but it was only 1 play and he didn't really achieve seperation.  It was a fantastic catch and throw but it's not a high percentage play that can be easily replicated.  I think Branch is the better option for an entire game.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:09 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


It's being reported that Gronk should be ready to practice this week. Probably won't play against the 9'ers. I think it'd be stupid to play him in that game his first week back.

BB hinted this morning that there's another roster move coming.  There's a rumor that it's former Maryland WR Tony Logan, was a standout punt returner in college.

Last edited 12/12/2012 2:17 PM by dokgonzo

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Posted: 12/12/2012 2:09 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


 #Patriots announce Tony Logan has been signed to practice squad (had open spot bc OL Tommie Draheim was cut yesterday)

 Patriots sign WR Tony Logan to the P-Squad. Was the primary punt returner at Maryland for 3 seasons. 2010: 18.1 ypp ranked 3rd nationally.

 Tony Logan's cousin is Jets cornerback Kyle Wilson. #TheMoreYouKnow

Last edited 12/12/2012 2:11 PM by dokgonzo

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Posted: 12/12/2012 5:10 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


And right on queue, Branch has been resigned.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 8:52 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Wow. That looks bad. And he ran off after this happened, and he held on to the ball and scored during it. Amazing.

 @DonteStallworth: Very disappointed in case you were wondering...BUT let's just say I'm blessed my ankle wasn't shattered to pieces!! http://lockerz.com/s/268497802

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Posted: 12/12/2012 9:13 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Yikes.  Kinda reminds me of Gronk last year against the Ravens.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:11 AM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 



DerekLarsson2 wrote:
This just has a real bad feel to it. 

Stallworth was not limping around right after the catch (although he also did not go back into the lineup). He also talked to Reporters after the game and wasn't limping around badly then.  No one who saw him last night observed any physical issue with him.

So just how bad could his alleged "injury" really be? 

Why couldn't he just sit out a week or two and rest?   Why is Belichick in such a hurry to cut the guy off the Team so fast?? 

If there's no limp, then it can't be anything all that bad.  Remember Gronk had a very bad high ankle sprain in the playoffs (limping), and then still played in the Super Bowl anyway (though not at full strength).   Same thing with Tom Brady in 2001. But Donte Stallworth had no limp, and was in good spirits last night.


So is there a backstory to this move?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there is:

1.  According to commentary on ESPN, Stallworth was asked if there was any difference in Tom Brady now from when he played with him from 5 years ago.  Stallworth said: "there was no difference at all, other than maybe a couple of wrinkles on his face".  He was then asked if he thought Brady should win the MVP award, and at ESPN they said that Stallworth answered:  "You know we don't answer hypotheticals on the Patriots, otherwise Belichick would call us a moron". This all seems innocent and harmless enough.  But I wonder if Belichick was pissed-off by this comment?  ("Belichick would call us a moron....")  Was that the wrong thing to say?

2.  Stallworth's great 63-yard one-handed catch and TD was the best single individual play that any Patriot WR has made all season long.  It was reminiscent of a Randy Moss type of play.   Now Brandon Lloyd doesn't make downfield catches in very tight coverage like that (and one-handed ones), and then also have the balance and presence of mind to to keep on going, and drag a Defender into the endzone like that.  Deion Branch cannot make that play either.  Neither can Matthew Slater.   No one other than a healthy Gronkowski could make a 60-yard play sort of like that.  Stallworth's catch & play was so spectacular that it might have upstaged the ego of the General Manager:  As it raises the question: Why was Stallworth ever cut in the first place?   How could it ever have been the correct judgement about WRs, to cut this guy in place of other inferior WR talent on the roster?  It's a fair question.


Now maybe I'm wrong, and Stallworth really has some mysterious subtle injury that is not visible when he walks.  But this just doesn't smell right.

Donte Stallworth is now off the Team.  Gone.
And he's not limping...........

Why the hurry to get rid this guy?
Why not at minimum keep him for the Playoffs?
Interesting piece of detective work, Holmes. Sure gives beef to the cliche; "One day wonder". Sir Belichick strikes again.biggrin

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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:14 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


My guess is that he didn't really feel it until he sat down on the sidelines and the adrenaline wore off.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:07 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Dok's pic speaks volume - no conspiracy theory here.

 

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Posted: 12/13/2012 6:22 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch Post Rating (1 vote)




Well folks, my point is this:  This was not a pure medical decision.

If Rob Gronkowski can come back for the Playoffs with a broken arm in 6 weeks, then why can't Donte Stallworth come back in 3 weeks for the Playoffs with just an ankle sprain? -- and one that was not even severe enough to cause him to limp around (much less cause him to wear a boot, or for him to be on crutches)

Why not keep him on the team anyway, and have him as a Playoff weapon in January/February?  

Nobody here answered that question.  Personally, I'd rather have Stallworth in the Playoffs, then just have Deion Branch at this point.  Branch was (surprisingly) a total no-show in the Super Bowl last year, and also against Baltimore. 

Stallworth is really the more explosive player at this point, and he can really do something in open space (we saw that against Houston).

But he was removed from the team so quickly, and before any medical details about the injury, and before he showed any visible evidence of any serious, un-healable problem.  But regardless of how legitimate the injury is, 3 weeks is plenty of time for him to heal an ankle sprain, and to get back out there on the field.

Putting him on IR means that no matter how well his ankle feels 3 weeks from now, or 4 weeks from now, he cannot ever play for The Patriots again.  

I think this is a bad mistake.  I'd rather see Stallworth making a few plays out there in the Playoffs (which would have a big impact on the scoreboard), then to have a just re-run of Deion Branch (which was not much of anything....)

Put it this way, Deion Branch won't ever beat the NY Giants in the Super Bowl.  But Donte Stallworth can make the exact kind of plays that might finally do the trick.....

  
   

Last edited 12/13/2012 7:09 PM by DerekLarsson2

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Posted: 12/13/2012 7:05 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


A couple things.

First, the team's medical staff doesn't diagnose an injury based on whether or not a guy is limping.  If that was all they looked at, then Brady never would have gone on IR in 2008 because he walked off the field and to the locker room without a whole lot of difficulty after blowing his knee out.  Seeing that pic, it seems pretty likely that there was significant injury there, and Stallworth said so himself.  Yes, Gronk played only two weeks after suffering a similar injury and not limping much afterward.  But we saw how ineffective he was in that Super Bowl.  He really shouldn't have played.   And Stallworth's injury, for all we know, could be worse than Gronk's was.

Second, it's a matter of numbers.  They are very thin at WR and they need someone who can play now,  Hence the signing of Branch.  They can't use a roster spot on a guy that isn't going to play for three or four or more weeks.  Not unless that guy's name is Gronkowski or Brady or something like that.  Stallworth only caught one pass in the game and even though I'm a big fan of his, he is not the key to a championship for this team.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 7:15 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Put it this way, Deion Branch won't ever beat the NY Giants in the Super Bowl.  But Donte Stallworth can make the exact kind of plays that might finally do the trick.....

Crap a key Weker catch or a defensive play could have done that in duplicate.

 

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Posted: 12/13/2012 7:24 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch Post Rating (1 vote)



Correction:  When Brady blew out his knee he sat down on the field for 2 or 3 minutes holding it in pain before he got up.  And he was limping very badly, and had some assistence in order to walk over to the bench.  And then he went immediately to the locker room, and was not putting weight on his one leg.  That was very clearly a very serious injury from the moment it happened.

When Gronk injured his ankle, he was also visibly limping as he walked off. 

But Donte Stallworth was happily running off the field, and walking around with ease afterward.  So that's a huge difference. 

Point 2:  Yes, a roster spot would be taken up, while Stallworth healed for perhaps a week or two.  But who cares?   The Patriots have no short-term emergency here.   They are going to be a 13 -3 or 12 -4 team no matter what.  They will either be a #1, #2 seed no matter what. 

But for the Playoffs they could really use a guy who can make some plays at the WR position, other than Wes Welker.  That's the issue.  The only thing that matters is the January/February games at this point.

So the question remains, who do you want to have for the Playoffs? 
Who would have a bigger impact?   Deion Branch or Donte Stallworth?

Last edited 12/13/2012 7:27 PM by DerekLarsson2

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Posted: 12/13/2012 7:31 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Stallworth disappointed high ankle sprain ended his season

... His adrenaline was pumping after the score. He was excited to make such a grand entrance back into NFL relevance. 

Then he got to the Patriots sideline.

"When I sat down it felt like somebody lit a blow torch on my foot," he said. "That's when I realized something wasn't right."

Stallworth suffered what he says is a high-ankle sprain when he was tackled going into the end zone. He was told the normal recovery time for that type of injury would be about 3-4 weeks, and he knew, at this point in the year, the team would likely place him on injured reserve. That's exactly what they did on Tuesday, ending his season.

"Bill [Belichick] does a great job of communicating. He brought me in his office well before that happened and he explained to me, you know, the situation moving forward," Stallworth said. "I completely agreed with his decision. ...

So, even if DL doesn't like it, Stallworth seems content with how he was treated and he plans to stay in Foxboro to rehab.

3-4 weeks rehab. Yeah, could be they could have kept active. Could also take longer, he's not in his 20's anymore, and that looks like a nasty sprain.

And what do they do between now and the playoffs for WR's if they kept him active? They have Lloyd, Welker, Slater, and that's it. They needed another WR who Brady can trust Sunday against the 9'ers, so Branch is the obvious choice.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 7:49 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Well DL I'm going to trust that the Pats have a lot more knowledge about the severity of the injury than you do, despite your uninformed prognosis that he'll be healthy in a week or two.

Hey I'd love to have him back too.  I'd sure rather have him than Branch.  But injuries happen.

Finally you ask "who cares"?  Well, I do.  And I'm sure there are plenty of fans like me who want this team to keep winning and secure a top seed.  And if that means using a roster spot on someone who can play and help the team now rather than holding it for a backup player who just joined the team after not playing football for a year and who may not be healthy enough to play in the playoffs, then so be it.
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Posted: 12/14/2012 12:12 AM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch Post Rating (2 votes)



> He was told the normal recovery time for that type of injury would be about 3-4 weeks

So this statement was information (source?) that was not included in the earlier reports on this...

But ......  just because the "normal" time is 3-4 weeks does not mean he could not be ready for their first Playoff Game, which is in January.  And he would most certaintly be ready to go by the AFC Championship game, and Super Bowl opportunities.

So it still comes down to whether you think there is some short-term WR emergency here, or whether it is more important to think longer-term and have their Playoff-run include the better playmaker at WR.

I guess I'd rather go into the Playoffs with a 12 -4 record, and Donte Stallworth as their #3 WR, then have the situation where they go into the Playoffs with a clean 13 - 3 record ...  but with Deion Branch as their #3 WR.

Beating SF is not all-important to me right now.

They can win the other games easily with just Welker & Lloyd, but come The Super Bowl and the AFC Title Game, they will need to have that one extra big play somewhere to avoid coming up short .... like last year.
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Posted: 12/14/2012 12:34 AM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


I tend to reject the hypothesis that the Patriots success in this year's Super Bowl, should they advance that far, rests on whether Branch or Stallworth is the #3 WR. 

The bigger piece of news for the day was that Shiancoe was released - which got very little notice because of Stallworth. That was a quasi-big-name FA signing that netted them zilcho. If they hadn't used the new IR designation on him,  and maybe used it for Demps, that would have likely been more productive. Fortunately, Fells is doing good work as a blocker and Oh-oh is looking like he'll stick around and the Pats will have 3 good, *young* TE's for years to come.
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Posted: 12/14/2012 11:24 AM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


To the point about Gronk - Gronk injuried and shot up with pain juice is still worth being on the field given his talent.  A recovering Stallworth at 75% probably isn't better than Branch.  I'd also take a 50% Brady over a 100% Mallet.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 8:00 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 



>   "I tend to reject the hypothesis that the Patriots success in this year's Super Bowl rests on whether Branch or Stallworth is the #3 WR."


That (overstatement) is not the way I phrased it.  

The issue here is that a team like San Francisco or the NY Giants have strong enough Defenses to limit Wes Welker's production.   They can double-up on him, and if that happens, Brady needs to have someone else out there who can make plays in the passing game.   Nobody knows if or when Gronk will really be 100%.  So his effectiveness may also be limited. 

And Deion Branch cannot get separation anymore (unlike the old days).  So they would benefit by having one extra playmaker in the Playoffs.  I've never heard of an ankle sprain talking longer than a month to heal.  There was no break.  Stallworth would be a real problem for the other Defenses and force them to spread vertically.  It would help Brady and give him another option.   I don't see any downside, since the Patriots will be 12-4 no matter what at the worst.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 8:09 PM

Re: Stallworth goes on IR resign Branch 


Can Stallworth get separation?  He didn't on the one catch he made in the game last week.  He made a great adjustment on the ball.  But it's not like he had beaten the coverage.

Look, if Stallworth was such an offensive threat he wouldn't have been unemployed from August until last week.

He had a significant enough injury to end up on IR, whether or not you witnessed him limping.  Can we just get over it now?
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