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If Zuttah goes down...?

Posted: 8/11/2014 12:26 PM

If Zuttah goes down...? 


...who would be the backup center? Gradkowski has a year of experience, but he was embarrassingly bad last year, and I'm not sure how much better he's been in the pre season.
Jensen is a lot bigger, stronger, and supposedly plays w/a mean streak, but has no NFL experience at center, and that would affect the entire line. 
Maybe the Ravens can find an experienced back up center/guard on the scrap heap
If you see me wearing a turban and sandals that means the Steelers are playing Iraq
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Posted: 8/11/2014 12:44 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 


Gradkowski played center with the 2nd team in the 1st preseason game, didn't he? I would imagine he'd be the backup.

He seemed like he did OK.....the run game was kicking on Thursday.
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SBsteelerfan wrote:
 uggh no, im not dense.  according to this dui was for marijuana not alcohol.  so no, he wouldnt have been arrested if weed were legal.


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Posted: 8/11/2014 12:47 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 


Gino was a part of the problem last year, but certainly not the sole reason. He is more than capable as a back up. Check out the Guard play last year...
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Posted: 8/11/2014 1:45 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 


One thing over looked about last year and Gino was he got better as the year moved along. 
I would think that as on now he's the #2.
 It's an entirely different situation this year from last , and for the better.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 2:52 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 


I'm far less concerned with Gino this year for a few reasons:

1. He's a year older, stronger and wiser
2. Gino+ a healthy KO + a healthy Yanda + a settled Monroe + Wagner >>>>> Gino+Shipley+injured Yanda+injured Oher+ uninterested McKinney or unsettled Monroe.

3. A truly "coordinated" offense goes a long way towards minimizing the weaknesses of an individual player.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 4:29 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 


Well Gino couldn't get any worse that's for sure
...and don't call me Shirley
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Posted: 8/11/2014 8:42 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 


Gino and Shipley both got their butts kicked Thurs. We have a serious lack of depth on the OL.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 9:48 AM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



BertJonesMyHero wrote: Gino and Shipley both got their butts kicked Thurs. We have a serious lack of depth on the OL.

Not too sure if we have a serious lack of depth on the OL, but that unit as a whole didn't perform well in pass-pro in its opening preseason performance.

My belief is still that AQ Shipley shouldn't be taking reps on this O-line except as a center. I know that he has pro experience and he's one of those "undersized try-hard" guys that all coaches love and see themselves in, but the fact of the matter is he's a liability as anything other than center -- and prolly is lacking in that area too.

I thought that Jensen played fairly solid in trying to watch him individually. He wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I saw him being a physical presence thruout, particularly in the run-gm. As for Gino, it seems that Kubes & Castillo are gonna give this kid a true chance to put his 2013 performance in the rear-view. He's getting reps, and if he can show worthy then they'll allow him to be our backup at that center spot. I'm sure all the coaches as well as Ozzie are looking closely at this trenches situation, so either Gino shows adequate to be a backup in their eyes OR they privately look to remedy the situation.

Still a bit more than 3 wks before this thing becomes real. Nothing is set in stone just yet.

C DiP
Poundin' da rock & Punishin' D wins games, period!!!
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Posted: 8/12/2014 10:06 AM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



CDiPiranha wrote:
BertJonesMyHero wrote: Gino and Shipley both got their butts kicked Thurs. We have a serious lack of depth on the OL.

Not too sure if we have a serious lack of depth on the OL, but that unit as a whole didn't perform well in pass-pro in its opening preseason performance.

My belief is still that AQ Shipley shouldn't be taking reps on this O-line except as a center. I know that he has pro experience and he's one of those "undersized try-hard" guys that all coaches love and see themselves in, but the fact of the matter is he's a liability as anything other than center -- and prolly is lacking in that area too.

I thought that Jensen played fairly solid in trying to watch him individually. He wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I saw him being a physical presence thruout, particularly in the run-gm. As for Gino, it seems that Kubes & Castillo are gonna give this kid a true chance to put his 2013 performance in the rear-view. He's getting reps, and if he can show worthy then they'll allow him to be our backup at that center spot.

I'm sure all the coaches as well as Ozzie are looking closely at this trenches situation, so either Gino shows adequate to be a backup in their eyes OR they privately look to remedy the situation.

Still a bit more than 3 wks before this thing becomes real. Nothing is set in stone just yet.

C DiP
They already have a serious situation to remedy at CB........................

We can only remedy so much. Finding a competent trenches guy is easier than finding a competent CB. I'm really hoping Brooks can fit in there, because I don't trust him on the back end yet, and we need a solid 3rd CB.

There are going to be plenty of camp cuts, and we'll get the best "cheap" guy we can find for the OL.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 10:27 AM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 


Zeus, the situation at CB is indeed one to watch for. I agree that the team is looking around the league for potential 'finds' if its possible to nab one as rosters are trimmed. 

I think the team is doing the same thing along its secondary as it is within the trenches right now -- and that is to allow the coaches to 'coach up' the in-house talent and see what you truly have. Again, things don't have to be ideal at this point in August for us to be a strong team down the stretch in Nov, Dec or Jan (and hopefully February too!). Sometimes you have to allow things to grow or mesh together.

In speaking of the secondary that you brought up, Asa seems to be giving himself a real chance to play meaningful reps for us in 2014. That may cause an alteration of plans and put Webby in outside coverage almost exclusively (meaning Asa will be an inside coverage guy in nickel/dime situations). The team will give veteran Franks as well as any of the undrafted rooks a chance to show they belong. Franks may be a decent option as a 4th-CB and a utility guy, and an undrafted guy may show worthy of making this team and perhaps contributing a bit in the backhalf of this season. We don't know at this juncture. At safety, Brooks may not be up-to-speed just yet but we're woefully early in the overall process. When the game slows down for him they'll be someplace that they can stick him on the field.

And the waiver wire will be combed over if we still seem to be lacking or the injury bug strikes further.

As for the OL, my sincere belief is that we're in a waaaaaay better situation today than we were in 2013. I've felt that we would be fine the whole entire offseason while many folks wailed and worried. Our depth may be a bit inexperienced, but good coaching and strong work ethic will allow the capable talents on our depthchart to improve and show worthy. I think with Kubes, Castillo and Dennison that there are enough good coaches that can mold whatever talent we have into solid performers.

Zeus, all in all, I think we'll be fine buddy. May be some growing pains though, so please refrain from throwing hard objects at the TV on Sundays.

C DiP
Poundin' da rock & Punishin' D wins games, period!!!
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Posted: 8/12/2014 12:44 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



zeusman52 wrote:
CDiPiranha wrote:
BertJonesMyHero wrote: Gino and Shipley both got their butts kicked Thurs. We have a serious lack of depth on the OL.

Not too sure if we have a serious lack of depth on the OL, but that unit as a whole didn't perform well in pass-pro in its opening preseason performance.

My belief is still that AQ Shipley shouldn't be taking reps on this O-line except as a center. I know that he has pro experience and he's one of those "undersized try-hard" guys that all coaches love and see themselves in, but the fact of the matter is he's a liability as anything other than center -- and prolly is lacking in that area too.

I thought that Jensen played fairly solid in trying to watch him individually. He wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I saw him being a physical presence thruout, particularly in the run-gm. As for Gino, it seems that Kubes & Castillo are gonna give this kid a true chance to put his 2013 performance in the rear-view. He's getting reps, and if he can show worthy then they'll allow him to be our backup at that center spot.

I'm sure all the coaches as well as Ozzie are looking closely at this trenches situation, so either Gino shows adequate to be a backup in their eyes OR they privately look to remedy the situation.

Still a bit more than 3 wks before this thing becomes real. Nothing is set in stone just yet.

C DiP
They already have a serious situation to remedy at CB........................

We can only remedy so much. Finding a competent trenches guy is easier than finding a competent CB. I'm really hoping Brooks can fit in there, because I don't trust him on the back end yet, and we need a solid 3rd CB.

There are going to be plenty of camp cuts, and we'll get the best "cheap" guy we can find for the OL.
If it was so easy, how come the Ravens couldn't find a decent interior lineman last year?
If you see me wearing a turban and sandals that means the Steelers are playing Iraq
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Posted: 8/12/2014 12:49 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



CDiPiranha wrote:
As for the OL, my sincere belief is that we're in a waaaaaay better situation today than we were in 2013. I've felt that we would be fine the whole entire offseason while many folks wailed and worried. Our depth may be a bit inexperienced, but good coaching and strong work ethic will allow the capable talents on our depthchart to improve and show worthy. I think with Kubes, Castillo and Dennison that there are enough good coaches that can mold whatever talent we have into solid performers.

After last year, why would you have any confidence in Castillo? His blocking scheme was a joke, and clearly didn't fit the Ravens personnel. As I've said before, I've never been a big fan of the ZBS, and everyone's assuming Kubiak is the answer to all our Oline problems. I hope so, but based on the line's struggling w/the ZBS in the past, I'm still a little skeptical.
If you see me wearing a turban and sandals that means the Steelers are playing Iraq
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Posted: 8/12/2014 1:48 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



Ravnfan4life wrote:
CDiPiranha wrote:
As for the OL, my sincere belief is that we're in a waaaaaay better situation today than we were in 2013. I've felt that we would be fine the whole entire offseason while many folks wailed and worried. Our depth may be a bit inexperienced, but good coaching and strong work ethic will allow the capable talents on our depthchart to improve and show worthy. I think with Kubes, Castillo and Dennison that there are enough good coaches that can mold whatever talent we have into solid performers.

After last year, why would you have any confidence in Castillo? His blocking scheme was a joke, and clearly didn't fit the Ravens personnel. As I've said before, I've never been a big fan of the ZBS, and everyone's assuming Kubiak is the answer to all our Oline problems. I hope so, but based on the line's struggling w/the ZBS in the past, I'm still a little skeptical.
Ravnfan, I admit that you have been CONSISTENT with your negativity of our O-line situation.

I have to ask this, and I'd like for you to answer this as truthfully as you can...

what do you have to see IN THIS TEAM for you to finally get off of what past seasons or past regimes accomplished (or didn't accomplish)?

I mean folks speak to you about coaches being successful and having strong track records, yet you routinely bring up much of what Billick's regime did or didn't do (with players that don't play here anymore). Castillo has been a solid O-line coach in this league. Yes, things didn't go well in 2013, but that HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what has or hasn't worked in B'more before...

this is about NOW, with THESE PLAYERS and THESE COACHES!

Castillo in this yr's coaching staff is just a position coach -- in other words he just follows orders and teaches and grinds his guys. Dennison isn't our O-line coach, but he's been one in Kubes' offense, so if anyone can spot things that need to be cleared up (or be there to collaborate with Castillo) it is Dennison. And Kubes has been in and around this offense and/or blocking scheme since Shanahan brought it to Denver with Alex Gibbs in the mid 90's. If there's an OC that has a firm grip on what he wishes to see in his O-line and his offense it is Kubiak.

My friend, you indeed have a right to your opinion, I respect that. But I would ask you to simply realize that coaches and players make a system succeed or not succeed -- not your distant past or the past of what has happened in this particular uniform or this town.

And before you go into your past excuses, Coletto (or some other offensive coach, position or OC or even Head Coach) and what he did with players THAT AREN'T EVEN HERE ANYMORE has absolutely NO BEARING HERE IN 2014. Just like Joe Flacco is or isn't a good QB because of what Kyle Boller was or wasn't...

judge what is here now based upon the factors that apply in the here-n-now.

Sorry for the rant my friend. I still would like to honestly hear you reasonably speak on this subject without always throwing up past stuff that has no bearing in today's landscape.

C DiP
Poundin' da rock & Punishin' D wins games, period!!!
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Posted: 8/12/2014 2:32 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



Ravnfan4life wrote:
zeusman52 wrote:
CDiPiranha wrote:
BertJonesMyHero wrote: Gino and Shipley both got their butts kicked Thurs. We have a serious lack of depth on the OL.

Not too sure if we have a serious lack of depth on the OL, but that unit as a whole didn't perform well in pass-pro in its opening preseason performance.

My belief is still that AQ Shipley shouldn't be taking reps on this O-line except as a center. I know that he has pro experience and he's one of those "undersized try-hard" guys that all coaches love and see themselves in, but the fact of the matter is he's a liability as anything other than center -- and prolly is lacking in that area too.

I thought that Jensen played fairly solid in trying to watch him individually. He wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I saw him being a physical presence thruout, particularly in the run-gm. As for Gino, it seems that Kubes & Castillo are gonna give this kid a true chance to put his 2013 performance in the rear-view. He's getting reps, and if he can show worthy then they'll allow him to be our backup at that center spot.

I'm sure all the coaches as well as Ozzie are looking closely at this trenches situation, so either Gino shows adequate to be a backup in their eyes OR they privately look to remedy the situation.

Still a bit more than 3 wks before this thing becomes real. Nothing is set in stone just yet.

C DiP
They already have a serious situation to remedy at CB........................

We can only remedy so much. Finding a competent trenches guy is easier than finding a competent CB. I'm really hoping Brooks can fit in there, because I don't trust him on the back end yet, and we need a solid 3rd CB.

There are going to be plenty of camp cuts, and we'll get the best "cheap" guy we can find for the OL.
If it was so easy, how come the Ravens couldn't find a decent interior lineman last year?
WHERE did I say it was easy? I said it was EAS - I - ER to find a competent OL than a competent CB. BOTH are difficult at this point.

We're likely settling for the next Bryant McKinnie or the next Frank Walker.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 5:46 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



zeusman52 wrote:
Ravnfan4life wrote:
zeusman52 wrote:
CDiPiranha wrote:
BertJonesMyHero wrote: Gino and Shipley both got their butts kicked Thurs. We have a serious lack of depth on the OL.

Not too sure if we have a serious lack of depth on the OL, but that unit as a whole didn't perform well in pass-pro in its opening preseason performance.

My belief is still that AQ Shipley shouldn't be taking reps on this O-line except as a center. I know that he has pro experience and he's one of those "undersized try-hard" guys that all coaches love and see themselves in, but the fact of the matter is he's a liability as anything other than center -- and prolly is lacking in that area too.

I thought that Jensen played fairly solid in trying to watch him individually. He wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I saw him being a physical presence thruout, particularly in the run-gm. As for Gino, it seems that Kubes & Castillo are gonna give this kid a true chance to put his 2013 performance in the rear-view. He's getting reps, and if he can show worthy then they'll allow him to be our backup at that center spot.

I'm sure all the coaches as well as Ozzie are looking closely at this trenches situation, so either Gino shows adequate to be a backup in their eyes OR they privately look to remedy the situation.

Still a bit more than 3 wks before this thing becomes real. Nothing is set in stone just yet.

C DiP
They already have a serious situation to remedy at CB........................

We can only remedy so much. Finding a competent trenches guy is easier than finding a competent CB. I'm really hoping Brooks can fit in there, because I don't trust him on the back end yet, and we need a solid 3rd CB.

There are going to be plenty of camp cuts, and we'll get the best "cheap" guy we can find for the OL.
If it was so easy, how come the Ravens couldn't find a decent interior lineman last year?
WHERE did I say it was easy? I said it was EAS - I - ER to find a competent OL than a competent CB. BOTH are difficult at this point.

We're likely settling for the next Bryant McKinnie or the next Frank Walker.
If you pay for a cheap player, you get what you pay for. 
That being said, as this line continues to develop under Kubiaks blocking scheme and not Jaun's, I think the Oline will be just fine. 

They have a couple more games to sort it all out.  Barring injury, I don't see another coming in
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Posted: 8/13/2014 10:43 AM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



CDiPiranha wrote:
Ravnfan4life wrote:
CDiPiranha wrote:
As for the OL, my sincere belief is that we're in a waaaaaay better situation today than we were in 2013. I've felt that we would be fine the whole entire offseason while many folks wailed and worried. Our depth may be a bit inexperienced, but good coaching and strong work ethic will allow the capable talents on our depthchart to improve and show worthy. I think with Kubes, Castillo and Dennison that there are enough good coaches that can mold whatever talent we have into solid performers.

After last year, why would you have any confidence in Castillo? His blocking scheme was a joke, and clearly didn't fit the Ravens personnel. As I've said before, I've never been a big fan of the ZBS, and everyone's assuming Kubiak is the answer to all our Oline problems. I hope so, but based on the line's struggling w/the ZBS in the past, I'm still a little skeptical.
Ravnfan, I admit that you have been CONSISTENT with your negativity of our O-line situation.

I have to ask this, and I'd like for you to answer this as truthfully as you can...

what do you have to see IN THIS TEAM for you to finally get off of what past seasons or past regimes accomplished (or didn't accomplish)?

CD, it will take more than a single drive in a pre-season game to offset 5 years of failure in a primary zone scheme(05-07, 2010, and 2013). I'm merely going by past history because obviously nobody can predict the future, and past history tells us, man blocking has worked much better FOR THIS TEAM, as recently as 2012 (in regards to the running game) than zone ever has.
If you see me wearing a turban and sandals that means the Steelers are playing Iraq
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Posted: 8/13/2014 10:54 AM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 


Believe it or not, football is a team sport.

Gradkowski is still making mental errors at center, Gino might be a better fit at guard.

Corner is a position in high demand, the odds that one is available for us are slim to none, the Bengals might release a corner capable of starting, that is most likely the only team dropping a viable corner due to depth.  Maybe Carr out of Dallas, or Peanut out of Chicago, but Carr isn't an upgrade and Peanut is a zone corner with a lot of tread on his tires.
 
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Posted: 8/13/2014 1:35 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 


Something is telling me that John Urshel is going to be our backup center and guard (both sides) for the next few years.


Size, power, EXTREME smarts...

Last edited 8/13/2014 1:35 PM by NewEraBmore

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Posted: 8/13/2014 1:47 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



NewEraBmore wrote: Something is telling me that John Urshel is going to be our backup center and guard (both sides) for the next few years.


Size, power, EXTREME smarts...
Why him instead of Jensen, who's about 25-30 lbs. of muscle heavier?
If you see me wearing a turban and sandals that means the Steelers are playing Iraq
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Posted: 8/13/2014 2:00 PM

Re: If Zuttah goes down...? 



Ravnfan4life wrote:
NewEraBmore wrote: Something is telling me that John Urshel is going to be our backup center and guard (both sides) for the next few years.


Size, power, EXTREME smarts...
Why him instead of Jensen, who's about 25-30 lbs. of muscle heavier?

Jensen is like 6'3 305

Urshel is like 6'2 304

Minimal difference...neither is a particularly large O-linemen, but fit the mold of an interior blocker in a ZBS. 

Jensen is a small-school college LT that has a LONG way to go before he can LEAD A BAND OF MEN on a football field. 

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