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NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger

  • BMann
  • Raven Veteran
  • 4181 posts this site

Posted: 3/1/2013 9:18 AM

NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


Best QB in AFC North?

Of course, all these knuckleheads prefer Roethlisberger.  I can live with that, as Ben has the better resume for now.  But I don't like the overused "Ben was on his way to an MVP season before he got hurt" excuse.  That's part of Ben's problem: His style of play has gotten him hurt more than once over the past few seasons.  Meanwhile, they give Joe NO credit for staying on the field; no one mentions that he's never missed a game.  Fletcher mentions that he was more impressed with Ben than Flacco when his Skins played them this season; the Steelers scored 27 at home vs. Washington, while Joe put up 28 at FedUp Field, with identical 121 QB ratings.  While I could buy Ben > Joe, their reasoning is suspect, to say the least.  Ben makes his team better?  Joe didn't do that this year, especially during the most critical time, the playoffs?  Ben takes a hit better than any QB?  Isn't that WHY HE GOT HURT?!?
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Posted: 3/1/2013 9:25 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


When you start with an opinion, you ignore or downplay the facts that don't agree with your opinion. The national perception is still that Roethlisberger is a better QB than Joe. Nevermind the fact that Roethlisberger hasn't beaten the Ravens since 2010.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!

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Posted: 3/1/2013 9:37 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


Roethlisberger is broken and playing scared, and who can blame him, their offensive line sucks, and his reckless style of play, that has given him his two rings, is catching up with him in terms of injuries.  

There is no head coach who at this moment in time would choose Roethlisberger over Flacco for their team. Nobody. Resumes are a different discussion. Flacco has had the best postseason by a quarterback ever. Let them squeal.

Last edited 3/1/2013 9:39 AM by canonian1

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Posted: 3/1/2013 9:38 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


The best argument for Big Ben here is his ludicrous 3rd down #s the last few years, it's so lazy when they base it on this guy has 2 Super Bowls and the other guy has 1. It's a good point though that Ben's extending plays on 3rd down leads to injuries.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 9:50 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



cvilleRaven wrote: When you start with an opinion, you ignore or downplay the facts that don't agree with your opinion. The national perception is still that Roethlisberger is a better QB than Joe. Nevermind the fact that Roethlisberger hasn't beaten the Ravens since 2010.
You cant use wins and losses vs a team to determine who is better QB. Ben doesnt play vs Joe on the field. ben plays vs Ravens Defense and opposite for Joe.

I would say right now they are as even as even could be and I love Ben but what Joe has done in the playoffs and not being hurt (alot is the O-line) is down right amazing. before last season i still would have took Ben every day of the week, but after last season and the run he made, it is now a debate. Id take Ben just because he is ont he roster but Im not going to take anything away from joe. He is in the same class as Ben and Eli to me. they are all in the top4-8 range of QB's in the NFL. I dont think either is as good as Rodgers, Brady,Brees and Manning (you can take one of them out not named Rodgers and place Ben,Joe,Eli though) but in the end id take Joe/Ben over brady,Brees and manning to start my team for the future.

When Joe does it again then I dont think anyone will say he isnt better than Ben. Ben gets hurt, i dont think it is his extending the play though as much as before. When he got sacked this year especially alot fo times it was with in 5 seconds of the snap. It causes more opportunity for injuries but I dont think its as much fault as it was with the previous ben injuries (and O-line)

This season upcoming will be the tell though. he will have the O-line that he should have for the upcoming 4 years. this is the future of the Steelers as far as Oline goes.


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:05 AM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


Imagine what it would be like if Flacco had a 22.6 QBR in the Super Bowl.
VARIABLE MONSTER!!
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:08 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



BLKandGOLDpride wrote:
cvilleRaven wrote: When you start with an opinion, you ignore or downplay the facts that don't agree with your opinion. The national perception is still that Roethlisberger is a better QB than Joe. Nevermind the fact that Roethlisberger hasn't beaten the Ravens since 2010.
You cant use wins and losses vs a team to determine who is better QB. Ben doesnt play vs Joe on the field. ben plays vs Ravens Defense and opposite for Joe.

I would say right now they are as even as even could be and I love Ben but what Joe has done in the playoffs and not being hurt (alot is the O-line) is down right amazing. before last season i still would have took Ben every day of the week, but after last season and the run he made, it is now a debate. Id take Ben just because he is ont he roster but Im not going to take anything away from joe. He is in the same class as Ben and Eli to me. they are all in the top4-8 range of QB's in the NFL. I dont think either is as good as Rodgers, Brady,Brees and Manning (you can take one of them out not named Rodgers and place Ben,Joe,Eli though) but in the end id take Joe/Ben over brady,Brees and manning to start my team for the future.

When Joe does it again then I dont think anyone will say he isnt better than Ben. Ben gets hurt, i dont think it is his extending the play though as much as before. When he got sacked this year especially alot fo times it was with in 5 seconds of the snap. It causes more opportunity for injuries but I dont think its as much fault as it was with the previous ben injuries (and O-line)

This season upcoming will be the tell though. he will have the O-line that he should have for the upcoming 4 years. this is the future of the Steelers as far as Oline goes.
Funny, for years we heard that Rottenburger was better because he never lost to Flacco, blah, blah, blah.  Now that the tables have turned, there are all these reasons why you can't decide it by that.

If you look at the defenses of each team, the Steelers have had the better defense overall, over the past 3 or 4 years.  So, if you look at how each has performed against the other team, I'd have to say Flacco has played better.

Of course, there is more to it than that.  We have had the better running game, but the Steelers have had the better receivers.  Not an exact science no matter what you look at.  Generally, wins and losses are what trump everything else.  They are pretty close in that regard but as of late Rottenburger has made the bigger mistakes in clutch times while Joe has shined.  So, right now I'd say Joe is better, but that is at this exact point in time.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:11 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


i agree as I heard it as well. im just saying IMO you cant. I never said Ben was better because he beat the ravens. I hear your point, but I thought the same point was stupid 4 years ago.


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:12 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


is charle batch a better QB than Joe? I mean he beat the ravens last year. I believe he is 2-2 vs the ravens when Joe played. does that make them equal?


 

Last edited 3/1/2013 10:15 AM by BLKandGOLDpride

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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:14 AM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



Ravenflash52 wrote: Imagine what it would be like if Flacco had a 22.6 QBR in the Super Bowl.

We'd have some cap room :) maybe we'd have Alex Smith?

The British are coming the British are coming!

Sun, Nov 20 vs Cincinnati


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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:18 AM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


Ravenflash52 wrote: Imagine what it would be like if Flacco had a 22.6 QBR in the Super Bowl.
Imagine if Flacco had ever had a better QB rating than Ben in during a season


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:20 AM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



Ravenflash52 wrote: Imagine what it would be like if Flacco had a 22.6 QBR in the Super Bowl.

considering ben finished that Post season with a 101 QBR says just as much. Flacco did bust out a playoff QBR of 50.8 and 39.4 over a playoff span as well.


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:21 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


and again with all that being said Id still consider no as good as ben so dont flip that into me being a homer as Ben is the QB on my team


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:25 AM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


Over the past five years no question Ben has been better than Joe. But here's the caveat to the situation. As Flacco has been unleashed, he has a much bigger upside than Ben at this point. So right now, they are even or Ben is a little ahead, but lets see what Joe can do with another year with Caldwell. Ben used to have great pocket awareness, but as he loses mobility, he's under more stress. But the AFC North is the only division with two Super Bowl winning quarterbacks!
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:28 AM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


I'd say Ben is entering his later years now vs Flacco coming into his prime

+ you have to figure in durability - Flacco has never missed a start or even a meaningful snap.

It doesn't really matter if Ben is 'better' if he can't play

...and don't call me Shirley
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:35 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


Ben is on a downward trend while Flacco is on an upward trend. In the what have you done for me lately league, I'm taking Flacco.
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  • BMann
  • Raven Veteran
  • 4181 posts this site

Posted: 3/1/2013 10:44 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



BLKandGOLDpride wrote:
cvilleRaven wrote: When you start with an opinion, you ignore or downplay the facts that don't agree with your opinion. The national perception is still that Roethlisberger is a better QB than Joe. Nevermind the fact that Roethlisberger hasn't beaten the Ravens since 2010.
You cant use wins and losses vs a team to determine who is better QB. Ben doesnt play vs Joe on the field. ben plays vs Ravens Defense and opposite for Joe.

I would say right now they are as even as even could be and I love Ben but what Joe has done in the playoffs and not being hurt (alot is the O-line) is down right amazing. before last season i still would have took Ben every day of the week, but after last season and the run he made, it is now a debate. Id take Ben just because he is ont he roster but Im not going to take anything away from joe. He is in the same class as Ben and Eli to me. they are all in the top4-8 range of QB's in the NFL. I dont think either is as good as Rodgers, Brady,Brees and Manning (you can take one of them out not named Rodgers and place Ben,Joe,Eli though) but in the end id take Joe/Ben over brady,Brees and manning to start my team for the future.

When Joe does it again then I dont think anyone will say he isnt better than Ben. Ben gets hurt, i dont think it is his extending the play though as much as before. When he got sacked this year especially alot fo times it was with in 5 seconds of the snap. It causes more opportunity for injuries but I dont think its as much fault as it was with the previous ben injuries (and O-line)

This season upcoming will be the tell though. he will have the O-line that he should have for the upcoming 4 years. this is the future of the Steelers as far as Oline goes.
I'd say your argument makes a lot more sense than anything that came for the NFLN piece.  It's fine to argue that Ben is better, but their arguments were kinda weak.

I really look forward to the 2013 season, though: As you say, this will be a HUGE year for Ben and Joe.  Will seeing the Ravens win it all light a fire under Ben and his Steelers, sending them back to their usual 11-12 win total?  Or is Ben "damaged goods" after looking so poor after returning in late 2012?  Conversely, how will Joe handle his post-season success, playing under his shiny new contract (or the Franchise tag, two very different scenarios)?  Will "The Caldwell Effect" be permanent, or will Joe regress to his "great 2-3 weeks"/"god-awful the next" level of inconsistency?  It's just about impossible right now to know the answers to those questions, but it will be very interesting to watch it unfold!
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:53 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



BMann wrote:
BLKandGOLDpride wrote:
cvilleRaven wrote: When you start with an opinion, you ignore or downplay the facts that don't agree with your opinion. The national perception is still that Roethlisberger is a better QB than Joe. Nevermind the fact that Roethlisberger hasn't beaten the Ravens since 2010.
You cant use wins and losses vs a team to determine who is better QB. Ben doesnt play vs Joe on the field. ben plays vs Ravens Defense and opposite for Joe.

I would say right now they are as even as even could be and I love Ben but what Joe has done in the playoffs and not being hurt (alot is the O-line) is down right amazing. before last season i still would have took Ben every day of the week, but after last season and the run he made, it is now a debate. Id take Ben just because he is ont he roster but Im not going to take anything away from joe. He is in the same class as Ben and Eli to me. they are all in the top4-8 range of QB's in the NFL. I dont think either is as good as Rodgers, Brady,Brees and Manning (you can take one of them out not named Rodgers and place Ben,Joe,Eli though) but in the end id take Joe/Ben over brady,Brees and manning to start my team for the future.

When Joe does it again then I dont think anyone will say he isnt better than Ben. Ben gets hurt, i dont think it is his extending the play though as much as before. When he got sacked this year especially alot fo times it was with in 5 seconds of the snap. It causes more opportunity for injuries but I dont think its as much fault as it was with the previous ben injuries (and O-line)

This season upcoming will be the tell though. he will have the O-line that he should have for the upcoming 4 years. this is the future of the Steelers as far as Oline goes.
I'd say your argument makes a lot more sense than anything that came for the NFLN piece.  It's fine to argue that Ben is better, but their arguments were kinda weak.

I really look forward to the 2013 season, though: As you say, this will be a HUGE year for Ben and Joe.  Will seeing the Ravens win it all light a fire under Ben and his Steelers, sending them back to their usual 11-12 win total?  Or is Ben "damaged goods" after looking so poor after returning in late 2012?  Conversely, how will Joe handle his post-season success, playing under his shiny new contract (or the Franchise tag, two very different scenarios)?  Will "The Caldwell Effect" be permanent, or will Joe regress to his "great 2-3 weeks"/"god-awful the next" level of inconsistency?  It's just about impossible right now to know the answers to those questions, but it will be very interesting to watch it unfold!

That is spot on. I personally dont think Joe will regress. He has come into his own. Will he have a bad couple games? of course, who doesnt. Joe will be a top level QB for another 5-7 years, Ben id say more like 4-5


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:59 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


I don't think it's fair to just use "number of rings", I think you need to take into account actual performance in those games as well. One is a super bowl MVP, one isn't.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 11:39 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


I can't believe, nor do I agree with the "experts" quick dismissal of Ben's durability. When discussing him, they mention injuries as if it is someone else's fault.

Physically he is a gifted QB, but quite frankly his lack of durability and Joe's track record of durability make the decision easier of who I'd rather have.

When Ben's on the field, he's tough to play against. Trouble is, he's good for 4 to 5 missed or "hobbled" games a year. In my opinion, that has hurt the Steelers a ton the last few years.

B&G Pride, I appreciate your "balanced" opinions on this board.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 11:44 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



RchmondRvnsFan wrote: I don't think it's fair to just use "number of rings", I think you need to take into account actual performance in those games as well. One is a super bowl MVP, one isn't.

are you being serious? so dont take rings into account but lets just focus on that one game.

ben had a shitty SB, yet he ended the PLAYOFFS with a QBR of 101. thats 4 games that were the most important of the season. Its the same as you all here saying Joes playoff success etc etc.

since u want to go off QBR, lets look at who has a higher one every year that they both been starting QB's during the season.

its all stupid as QBR isnt the only factor in games.

is the safety from Dallas who won SB MVP in 95 a better safety tahn Reed? i mean Reed didnt win SB MVP. your logic is stupid.

You dont take 1 game to decide who is better, you dont say ben is better because he has 2 rings, you dont say Joe is better because he won MVP and preformed better in the one SB game. it takes a team to win a SB, it takes a team to get to the superbowl. You take a look at a players career and determine if they are better than player B.

barry Sanders, Moss, Marino, Jim kelly are just a few players better than alot of SB MVP's at their respected positions.


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 11:53 AM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


Nowayallthesenamesaretaken wrote: I can't believe, nor do I agree with the "experts" quick dismissal of Ben's durability. When discussing him, they mention injuries as if it is someone else's fault.

Physically he is a gifted QB, but quite frankly his lack of durability and Joe's track record of durability make the decision easier of who I'd rather have.

When Ben's on the field, he's tough to play against. Trouble is, he's good for 4 to 5 missed or "hobbled" games a year. In my opinion, that has hurt the Steelers a ton the last few years.

B&G Pride, I appreciate your "balanced" opinions on this board.
there is 1 thing I hate its when people (on any board) cant just have a chat about football with their rival fans. i mean, we dont play the damn game. I dont like your team (well dont want them to win) but damn u didnt punch my mother in the face, why hate u.I like football discussion and this one is a good one (Ben VS Joe) up till 2 years ago it was 1 sided, last season Joe made it a hell of alot closer (or even). Like I said I like Ben Id chose Ben but if I was given the choice that said you have a 10 year career to own a team, pick one of these 2 QB's. Id be hard pressed to not pick Joe because I think he will be around for for year 6-10 of that term where Ben might not.I dont think it is injury based, I think Bens body will wear down quicker than Joes.the 4-5 injured/hobbled comment is a little off though. its not waaay off tho.in 5 of his 8 years he played 15 or 16 games maybe he was hobbled one of the games but still 2-3 for that span.first year he played 14 but he played every game he was a starter for.the bike wreck took a bit off one of his seasonthen the suspension took another span of games offthose 2 seasons (wreck/suspension) he played in all games after he returned.I wont sit here and say that ben doesnt hobble every year or is injured every year (or most) cause he is, id say more 3 games though is fair bet.also though he does have 4 more years in league than Joe. Good chance Joe doesnt get hurt, but you never know in 2 years Joe may have got beat up a bit and then he starts hobbling a bit lol


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 11:59 AM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


I think it's funny when people say that he was playing at an MVP level before he was hurt. Big Ben gets hurt almost every year especially of late. Flacco has NEVER missed a start. If you asking if I had a season for one I'm choosing Joe because I know he is gonna be there for 16+ games.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 12:03 PM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


its not that far off, ben was having one o his best seasons (statistically) so its fair to say that, however that should have no weight on any discussion. what ifs are pointless. What if nothing, it happend. ben got hurt.

In terms of injuries and flacco, you cant say he will be there for 16+. You can say in the past he has but you never know. I will be the first to say Joe in more durable and if I had to bet right now for this next season i would also wager on joe being there for more games, but nothin is a lock. 1 dirty hit, one freak play and it could be season over.

Bens injury last year was as fluke as Ive seen. A normal takle and not that abnormal landing and boom cracked some insides... just one of those things.


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 12:05 PM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 




---------------------------------------------
--- BLKandGOLDpride wrote:


RchmondRvnsFan wrote: I don't think it's fair to just use "number of rings", I think you need to take into account actual performance in those games as well. One is a super bowl MVP, one isn't.

are you being serious? so dont take rings into account but lets just focus on that one game.

ben had a shitty SB, yet he ended the PLAYOFFS with a QBR of 101. thats 4 games that were the most important of the season. Its the same as you all here saying Joes playoff success etc etc.

since u want to go off QBR, lets look at who has a higher one every year that they both been starting QB's during the season.

its all stupid as QBR isnt the only factor in games.

is the safety from Dallas who won SB MVP in 95 a better safety tahn Reed? i mean Reed didnt win SB MVP. your logic is stupid.

You dont take 1 game to decide who is better, you dont say ben is better because he has 2 rings, you dont say Joe is better because he won MVP and preformed better in the one SB game. it takes a team to win a SB, it takes a team to get to the superbowl. You take a look at a players career and determine if they are better than player B.

barry Sanders, Moss, Marino, Jim kelly are just a few players better than alot of SB MVP's at their respected positions.

---------------------------------------------

Well, Flacco is certainly the better postseason quarterback.

18-2 TD/INT ratio in the playoffs the last three years, and that's with two dropped game-winning touchdown passes.

7 of his last 8 playoff games he's had a qb rating of 95 or higher.

Flacco has a higher quarterback rating in his Super Bowl than Roethlisberger had in both of his combined.

Flacco had highest qb rating in Super Bowl since Steve Young in 1994.

Roethlisberger had number 2 and number 1 defenses for his two superbowls. Flacco just won the Super Bowl with probably the worst Super Bowl winning defense in NFL history.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 12:25 PM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


is the postseason the only measuring stick? What about the season to get to the postseason?

please dont take dropped plays into effect. its part of game.

in 5 postseasons Joe flacco's QBR is 78.66

In bens last 5 postseasons his QBR is 84.96

you keep pointing to 1 game for stats. look at whole postseason those QBR are based off of Joe playing 14 games in the 5 years and Ben playing in 13 in his last 5 postseasons.

Im not debating what Flacco has done last 2 years in playoffs. When you are talking about better QB overall, you dont just discuss 2 years or 1 game, you discuss career. Sorry it doesnt fit the Ravens chest bumping, but Joe had HORRIBLE playoffs his first 2 postseasons. Those are just as creditable as the last 3 seasons.

Again Im not even arguing whether or not ben is better. I dont think there is a gap between them. As I stated if I had 10 years to own a franchise and got to chose one of them, Id prob chose Joe. he is younger, will be playing longer into my 10 year ownership and he does things ben doesnt do, (as Ben does that joe doesnt).

ben on 3rd down is money. Id take ben on 3rd down over Joe in a heartbeat and prior to last 2 seasons ben in 4th quarter all day long. that has changed now. Joe has grown, become much better and Id be stupid to not say how good he is. He is now a top 5 QB (4-7 are all a toss up) and soon I think brady and manning and brees all drop out of top 4 and it becomes Rodgers,Eli,Joe,Ben) only order id set is Rodgers #1.

in 2005 steelers were 16th vs the pass and 3rd vs rush. They didnt give up alot of points, but their defense shouldnt have been ranked that high. Do you think they were the ebst defense this year? I surely dont

they blew 4th quarter leads 4 times throughout the season. couldnt get off the field on 3rd down. They were horrible in sacks and turnovers but somehow they still were top defense.


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 12:49 PM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


What does it all matter? Sure Ben's had great production up until now, and he's earned the distinction of producing more than Flacco up until this point. But let's make believe that they were both FA's and you had to sign one player for your franchise for the same amount of money.  I believe that the smart money would be on Flacco. He has a whole career of greatness in front of him, and Ben's best days are behind him.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 12:56 PM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


I def wouldnt say bens best days are behind him. he was having a great season last year. I dont see why he cant have another great season next year.

It would also be determined of the team around them who they would go after. I sure in the hell wouldnt complain if I got either. if I was rebuilding a team and it would take 2-3 years then no question id take Joe, If I had a veteran team who's window was closing and only had 2-3 years to win it would be a toss up. (for me)


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 1:05 PM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


Ok. so we all agree...

They are both damn fine QBs.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 1:07 PM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


The better question is will the Steelers come in 2nd or 3rd place next year? Now that their defense is no longer drop dead dominant, can their offense pick up the slack like the Ravens did.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 1:14 PM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



SpankyJohnson wrote: The better question is will the Steelers come in 2nd or 3rd place next year? Now that their defense is no longer drop dead dominant, can their offense pick up the slack like the Ravens did.

ok lets break this down real quick (im not debating that the ravens will win division)

but the defense is no longer drop dead dominant-

they were #1 (I dont agree but it is what it is)

who will they lose form that defense?

hampton- they were as dominant with Mcclendon on the field especially in pass rushing downs. he wont be as good as hampton maybe in the run game but its still TBD. hampton is old and over weight. he did however play a very nice season though.

If they retain Lewis their CB's wont change, They are not cutting clark and troy (I wouldnt think) so their safeties dont change from last year.

OLB- harrison? Im betting he is back / Woodley had worst season he has ever had and one of the worst ive seen from the OLB play in Pittsburgh, but thats 1 out of how many. There is no way he doesnt have a better season (if he doesnt then they are screwed for 4 more years lol)

DE's- same as last year or maybe hayward instead of kiesel. I dont see a huge drop off, but maybe a little. ILB- Same 2 as last season. If foote goes then they have 2 young guys that will determine if its the same, worse or improves...

I just cant see any reason steelers still wont have a good defense. I know, I know age blah blah but D-line all young, 3 of the 4 LB's all young (if foote or harrison is replaced), 2 of the 3 CB's all young. Safety- Troy has to be close to being healthy and clark hasnt declined yet in his play.

Id be more concerned with will the offense be able to compete. OL should be fine, but who knows. Miller out for maybe some games, no wallace, no RB.

Im more concerned with the offense putting up 21+ points more than defense holding teams to under 21


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 1:14 PM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



dropsalotaylor wrote: Ok. so we all agree...

They are both damn fine QBs.

no doubt about it!!!


 

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Posted: 3/1/2013 3:56 PM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


IMO, the most important thing for the Steelers to do is to come up with a solid starter at RB.  It would make every other position on their offense better.  If they can stay healthy, the OL will be solid, and a good running game always helps out the passing game, all other things being equal.

OTOH, I'm not yet convinced that the players they have been drafting on defense the last few years will be as capable as the old starters they are tagged to replace.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 5:32 PM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



DiscoJamal wrote:

I'd say Ben is entering his later years now vs Flacco coming into his prime

+ you have to figure in durability - Flacco has never missed a start or even a meaningful snap.

It doesn't really matter if Ben is 'better' if he can't play

Ben is 30 or 31, i'm not sure that's later years.

The last part is true with health.

Though, it will be interesting to see what happens now that Flacco will be getting top-end money and how that affects their cap.

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Posted: 3/1/2013 5:33 PM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


I think next year will really define how Flacco progresses both in character and in performance.  This is taking into account a hefty contract that he will receive and how well he can either earn that money going forward or hit the dreaded post contract big money slump so many players seem to experience.  Cam Cameron is gone, now he appears to have a legit offensive coordinator, and he is coming off a fantastic post season and SB win.  The excuses are gone.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 5:43 PM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


Ben can no longer run and he holds the ball way too long.. He will be exposed...
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Posted: 3/1/2013 7:27 PM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 


I am typically a "number of rings" type of guy, but I truly prefer Joe.

Ben came up clutch a few times on the final drive, but he never really played great throughout the playoffs and in big games.  He usually played like junk with the defense bailing him out until late.

Joe truly dominated throughout the playoffs without the benefit of the Steelers' D.  With a weakened team as a whole, Ben missed the playoffs. 

Joe has not missed the playoffs yet.

And a BIG thing, is that Joe has not missed a start yet *knock on wood*.  Ben has been injured for parts of a season multiple times.

Last edited 3/1/2013 7:28 PM by AirHead3745

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Posted: 3/1/2013 7:37 PM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



Its pretty simple.  Ben cant stay on the field for 16 games a year.  Joe has never missed a start.  Give me Joe and its not even close right now.  Didn't anyone watch Roethlisberger in December?
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Posted: 3/1/2013 7:39 PM

RE: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



---------------------------------------------
--- BLKandGOLDpride wrote:

is the postseason the only measuring stick? What about the season to get to the postseason?

please dont take dropped plays into effect. its part of game.

in 5 postseasons Joe flacco's QBR is 78.66

In bens last 5 postseasons his QBR is 84.96

you keep pointing to 1 game for stats. look at whole postseason those QBR are based off of Joe playing 14 games in the 5 years and Ben playing in 13 in his last 5 postseasons.

Im not debating what Flacco has done last 2 years in playoffs. When you are talking about better QB overall, you dont just discuss 2 years or 1 game, you discuss career. Sorry it doesnt fit the Ravens chest bumping, but Joe had HORRIBLE playoffs his first 2 postseasons. Those are just as creditable as the last 3 seasons.

Again Im not even arguing whether or not ben is better. I dont think there is a gap between them. As I stated if I had 10 years to own a franchise and got to chose one of them, Id prob chose Joe. he is younger, will be playing longer into my 10 year ownership and he does things ben doesnt do, (as Ben does that joe doesnt).

ben on 3rd down is money. Id take ben on 3rd down over Joe in a heartbeat and prior to last 2 seasons ben in 4th quarter all day long. that has changed now. Joe has grown, become much better and Id be stupid to not say how good he is. He is now a top 5 QB (4-7 are all a toss up) and soon I think brady and manning and brees all drop out of top 4 and it becomes Rodgers,Eli,Joe,Ben) only order id set is Rodgers #1.

in 2005 steelers were 16th vs the pass and 3rd vs rush. They didnt give up alot of points, but their defense shouldnt have been ranked that high. Do you think they were the ebst defense this year? I surely dont

they blew 4th quarter leads 4 times throughout the season. couldnt get off the field on 3rd down. They were horrible in sacks and turnovers but somehow they still were top defense.

---------------------------------------------

19-8 TD/INT is considerably better than 20-17.

And yes, I'll include a dropped pass into it when Flacco did what he had to do to get Baltimore to the Super Bowl, but his teammates let him down.

Oh, and Flacco is better at getting his team to the playoffs, too.

Last edited 3/1/2013 7:41 PM by HunkyDory

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Posted: 3/1/2013 7:47 PM

Re: NFLN Discussion: Flacco vs. Roethlisberger 



AirHead3745 wrote: I am typically a "number of rings" type of guy, but I truly prefer Joe.

Ben came up clutch a few times on the final drive, but he never really played great throughout the playoffs and in big games.  He usually played like junk with the defense bailing him out until late.

Joe truly dominated throughout the playoffs without the benefit of the Steelers' D.  With a weakened team as a whole, Ben missed the playoffs. 

Joe has not missed the playoffs yet.

And a BIG thing, is that Joe has not missed a start yet *knock on wood*.  Ben has been injured for parts of a season multiple times.

please stop before u look stupid.

2005: in 3 playoff games - bens QBR 148/95/123

2007 - he passed for over 300 yards with a 80QBR (not great but hardly like junk

2008: NO INTS in playoff games prior to superbowl - 94/84 QBR then 94 in SB

2009: 101 QBR vs the ravens/ Horrible vs Jets then a 80 QBR in SB loss

again overall in his last 5 playoffs including SB he has a better QBR than Joe. its hard to be respectfull and talk reasonable when some of you spew garbage.

is it that hard to just look at facts instead of just picking random games where he was bad and spouting those off.

in 2 of their SB seasons Ben got them there. how he played in SB is important but so is getting to the SB. He did throw the amazing pass to win the SB. I know holmes caught it but its no different than when Joe chucked it up and bolding came down with it now is it? somehow Joe got credit but Ben doesnt.

take off the glasses for a moment. Joe is awesome, u lucky to have him but he isnt the only QB in the world. Others can be good.


Ben hasnt had a real Junk year yet. a few junk games sure, and yes 2 of those were in the playioffs, but he also destroyed with 4th qtr comebacks to allow them to get to playoffs


 

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