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So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who?

Posted: 1/2/2013 10:59 AM

So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


None of you gave legit options to say replace them yet some of you keep talking like you have an answer for it.

WHO ARE YOU REPLACING THEM WITH?


That is the issue that I have especially with Ed Reed.

Ed is still a top 5 safety in the NFL so go find 5-10 safties better than him to say he should be gone.

And if any of you say Thompson should replace Reed don't bother posting in this thread.

The fact of the matter is, Reed will be around for 3 years which should be good enough for the Ravens in a short term deal.

I would rather pay Reed short term than commit to Kruger or Ellerbe long term WHO HAVE NO TRACK RECORD of playing well until their last year of their contracts.

Ray Lewis on the other hand, you don't mess with Ray. He is the one player on this team you don't mess with.

All these fans who say Ray should be gone by getting cut are stupid and ignorant. Sorry, that is the truth. You underestimate what the IMPACT IN THE LOCKER ROOM would have on the team if that were to happen.

People seem to forget it was RAY LEWIS who kept the locker room in tact when Harbaugh first got here. People didn't like the way Harbaugh ran things but Ray kept them in line.

Ray's contract is almost up anyways so if the Ravens were smart they would not cut him.


There are a lot of players on this team who should be cut before Ray and Reed.

Birk, Williams and McClain to start.

Some fans act like the Ravens should go on a shopping spree in FA. They are not regardless.

THERE ARE VERY FEW players on this team who the Ravens should consider re-signing.

Last edited 1/2/2013 11:10 AM by RAVENSDEFENSE52

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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:03 AM

Re: So fans want to cut Lewis and Reed and replace them with 


Ed Reed can still play but he's too fragile to pay long term. If you gonna sign one or the other, I'd pick Reed over Lewis.  Ray Lewis got paid 20 million dollars over his market value for the last three years... It's time for him to go, or come back next year at 1 million.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:04 AM

Re: So fans want to cut Lewis and Reed and replace them with 


Wouldn't be cutting Reed.  He is an URFA next year.  Unless we tag him, he will explore the market.  And despite his HOF career, you don't overpay a guy with his injury history and declining production.

Ray is on one arm and physically is a shell of himself.   Can't pay him 5-6 million next year.

It is what it is.  Its a business.

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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:04 AM

Re: So fans want to cut Lewis and Reed and replace them with 



SpankyJohnson wrote: Ed Reed can still play but he's too fragile to pay long term. If you gonna sign one or the other, I'd pick Reed over Lewis.  Ray Lewis got paid 20 million dollars over his market value for the last three years... It's time for him to go, or come back next year at 1 million.
I think they can work a deal with Ray but I would not force him out. I don't think that would be wise for  them.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:05 AM

Re: So fans want to Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with 



ClericBlackDave wrote:

Wouldn't be cutting Reed.  He is an URFA next year.  Unless we tag him, he will explore the market.  And despite his HOF career, you don't overpay a guy with his injury history and declining production.

Ray is on one arm and physically is a shell of himself.   Can't pay him 5-6 million next year.

It is what it is.  Its a business.

Ya you are correct I forgot.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:07 AM

Re: So fans want to cut Lewis and Reed and replace them with 



ClericBlackDave wrote:

Wouldn't be cutting Reed.  He is an URFA next year.  Unless we tag him, he will explore the market.  And despite his HOF career, you don't overpay a guy with his injury history and declining production.

Ray is on one arm and physically is a shell of himself.   Can't pay him 5-6 million next year.

It is what it is.  Its a business.

Also, I don't see 10 safties in the NFL better than Reed. So he may be declining, but his decline is better than most.

Ray probably won't be here in 2 years from now. So that's why I say give him time.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:11 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Is there another team willing to sign Ray?

There is still probably a market for Ed.

"Got a cover of Sports Illustrated..it says the Titans are the best team in football...maybe they are...but not today" Brian Billick

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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:14 AM

Re: So fans want to cut Lewis and Reed and replace them with 



RAVENSDEFENSE52 wrote:
ClericBlackDave wrote:

Wouldn't be cutting Reed.  He is an URFA next year.  Unless we tag him, he will explore the market.  And despite his HOF career, you don't overpay a guy with his injury history and declining production.

Ray is on one arm and physically is a shell of himself.   Can't pay him 5-6 million next year.

It is what it is.  Its a business.

Also, I don't see 10 safties in the NFL better than Reed. So he may be declining, but his decline is better than most.

Ray probably won't be here in 2 years from now. So that's why I say give him time.

The problem is, Ed.  Ed will want a 7-9 million a year multi-year contract.  That would be just poor management by Ozzie to do that.

RIGHT NOW there aren't 10 better safeties.  But Safeties come out every year, AND Ed is aging and on the decline.  You're likely to get better bang for your buck drafting his heir than sticking with him.

Ray is in a deal that is going sour.  We're overpaying for a name / a legend.  I love him, but if he doesn't retire, we need to move on.

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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:22 AM

Re: So fans want to cut Lewis and Reed and replace them with 



ClericBlackDave wrote:
RAVENSDEFENSE52 wrote:
ClericBlackDave wrote:

Wouldn't be cutting Reed.  He is an URFA next year.  Unless we tag him, he will explore the market.  And despite his HOF career, you don't overpay a guy with his injury history and declining production.

Ray is on one arm and physically is a shell of himself.   Can't pay him 5-6 million next year.

It is what it is.  Its a business.

Also, I don't see 10 safties in the NFL better than Reed. So he may be declining, but his decline is better than most.

Ray probably won't be here in 2 years from now. So that's why I say give him time.

The problem is, Ed.  Ed will want a 7-9 million a year multi-year contract.  That would be just poor management by Ozzie to do that.

RIGHT NOW there aren't 10 better safeties.  But Safeties come out every year, AND Ed is aging and on the decline.  You're likely to get better bang for your buck drafting his heir than sticking with him.

Ray is in a deal that is going sour.  We're overpaying for a name / a legend.  I love him, but if he doesn't retire, we need to move on.

The thing they both have going for them though is there are not a lot of players on this team who need to be re-signed.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:26 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Will be hard to have them both and Flacco without mortgaging the future (and losing key people like Ellerbe and Williams). IMO, Reed will NOT get a big payday from the Ravens. They will let him explore his options like they did with Ray 3 years ago but will offer him something reasonable if there are no takers. I think if Ray plays well during the playoffs he will come back. He is under contract and there's no way they cut him. That's how I see it.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:28 AM

Re: So fans want to cut Lewis and Reed and replace them with 



RAVENSDEFENSE52 wrote:
ClericBlackDave wrote:
RAVENSDEFENSE52 wrote:
ClericBlackDave wrote:

Wouldn't be cutting Reed.  He is an URFA next year.  Unless we tag him, he will explore the market.  And despite his HOF career, you don't overpay a guy with his injury history and declining production.

Ray is on one arm and physically is a shell of himself.   Can't pay him 5-6 million next year.

It is what it is.  Its a business.

Also, I don't see 10 safties in the NFL better than Reed. So he may be declining, but his decline is better than most.

Ray probably won't be here in 2 years from now. So that's why I say give him time.

The problem is, Ed.  Ed will want a 7-9 million a year multi-year contract.  That would be just poor management by Ozzie to do that.

RIGHT NOW there aren't 10 better safeties.  But Safeties come out every year, AND Ed is aging and on the decline.  You're likely to get better bang for your buck drafting his heir than sticking with him.

Ray is in a deal that is going sour.  We're overpaying for a name / a legend.  I love him, but if he doesn't retire, we need to move on.

The thing they both have going for them though is there are not a lot of players on this team who need to be re-signed.
Flacco and Ellerbe should be our two highest priorities.  Then find a decent left tackle either through draft or free agency.  But, that is a must.  Then, whatever is left over, see what you can do with Reed and then Ray.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:28 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Ray Lewis and Ed Reed sell shirts, they are also the faces of this franchise, what price / value do you put on the leadership that these players offer to our team (especially to our defense) it seems that Ed has been a good mentor to our young secondary.

As wrong as it seemed, the Colts certainly managed to move on from Manning, I don't know if having that first round pick to use on Luck  softened that transition for the fans?

The British are coming the British are coming!

Sun, Nov 20 vs Cincinnati


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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:31 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



MRGRIM wrote: Ray Lewis and Ed Reed sell shirts, they are also the faces of this franchise, what price / value do you put on the leadership that these players offer to our team (especially to our defense) it seems that Ed has been a good mentor to our young secondary.

As wrong as it seemed, the Colts certainly managed to move on from Manning, I don't know if having that first round pick to use on Luck  softened that transition for the fans?
you can bet had luck had a bad season, and with the season Manning had, The colts would have had alot of questions to answer.

"Got a cover of Sports Illustrated..it says the Titans are the best team in football...maybe they are...but not today" Brian Billick

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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:32 AM

RE: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Ellerbe has become a beast at MLB and can take Rays job today. Right now, he's the best man up vs the run, pass coverage, and blitz sacks. Ray was a man among boys for 15 years. But, he's becoming injury prone for the past 2-3 years. We all love Ray, but his time has come. If he wants to be "locker room cheerleader", than thats on him, but we cant possibly go thru this same trivial discussion everytime Ray's retirement comes up in conversation.

As far as Reeds FS job, well Im not sure. I do know that Considine aint the answer. Maybe Webb can take the job and let Brown take the slot CB job. I think Webb could be the same ball-hawk as Ed. My beef with Reed, as of late, is that he guesses wrong too many times. The free safety gets the privilege of standing in the back, watching the play develop and attacking where he thinks the play will end up. I always understood the FS was to cover the deep man and not let anything get behind him. Im not sure if he's forced to cover one side of the field due to lack-luster CB play and the ball winds up on the other side of the field, if he gets read off by the opposing QB, or if he just flirts with disaster too often hoping to score the big one. And lets face the other fact...he cannot/will not tackle where Webb will stick his nose right into the fracas.

         

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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:34 AM

RE: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


I would LOVE to have them both back... but not at $$$ they are going to seek.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:35 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Personally, I'm hoping we let both go for the cap room, as much as I love them.

Ray is a shell of what he was.  Ed still is pretty good, but his price tag will likely be too steep given the other priorities the team needs to take care of (i.e. Flacco). 

We'll see how it plays out.  I tend to think Ray will be back and Ed will depart.

P.S. Is that true about Ray keeping the team together when Harbaugh came?  I thought he was one of the players angry that he took his extra lockers away... *shrugs*

Last edited 1/2/2013 11:36 AM by AirHead3745

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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:39 AM

RE: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Good teams don't cling to big name vets. You have to cut bait and move on.

I love Ray and Ed, but their time is up as players.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:42 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



AirHead3745 wrote: Personally, I'm hoping we let both go for the cap room, as much as I love them.

Ray is a shell of what he was.  Ed still is pretty good, but his price tag will likely be too steep given the other priorities the team needs to take care of (i.e. Flacco). 

We'll see how it plays out.  I tend to think Ray will be back and Ed will depart.

P.S. Is that true about Ray keeping the team together when Harbaugh came?  I thought he was one of the players angry that he took his extra lockers away... *shrugs*
It was Ray and there are players who were there that would argue Rex Ryan played a role as well.

But in large, Ray was the main reason because he embraced harbaugh.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:49 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



thanksart wrote:

Will be hard to have them both and Flacco without mortgaging the future

(and losing key people like Ellerbe and Williams). IMO, Reed will NOT get a big payday from the Ravens. They will let him explore his options like they did with Ray 3 years ago but will offer him something reasonable if there are no takers. I think if Ray plays well during the playoffs he will come back. He is under contract and there's no way they cut him. That's how I see it.
We don't worry about mortgaging the future in this forum. We can pay them all and just bring in a whole lot more UDFA's on the cheap to make up the difference.

We can pay a few stars and everybody else gets the league minimum. And we'll be fine because we've made the playoffs for 5 straight years.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:50 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



zeusman52 wrote:
thanksart wrote:

Will be hard to have them both and Flacco without mortgaging the future

(and losing key people like Ellerbe and Williams). IMO, Reed will NOT get a big payday from the Ravens. They will let him explore his options like they did with Ray 3 years ago but will offer him something reasonable if there are no takers. I think if Ray plays well during the playoffs he will come back. He is under contract and there's no way they cut him. That's how I see it.
We don't worry about mortgaging the future in this forum. We can pay them all and just bring in a whole lot more UDFA's on the cheap to make up the difference.

We can pay a few stars and everybody else gets the league minimum. And we'll be fine because we've made the playoffs for 5 straight years.
Yes because Alex Smith will solve everything.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 12:11 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



zeusman52 wrote:
thanksart wrote:

Will be hard to have them both and Flacco without mortgaging the future

(and losing key people like Ellerbe and Williams). IMO, Reed will NOT get a big payday from the Ravens. They will let him explore his options like they did with Ray 3 years ago but will offer him something reasonable if there are no takers. I think if Ray plays well during the playoffs he will come back. He is under contract and there's no way they cut him. That's how I see it.
We don't worry about mortgaging the future in this forum. We can pay them all and just bring in a whole lot more UDFA's on the cheap to make up the difference.

We can pay a few stars and everybody else gets the league minimum. And we'll be fine because we've made the playoffs for 5 straight years.
I hear Osi is available next year. Lets go get him too devil

         

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Posted: 1/2/2013 12:37 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



RAVENSDEFENSE52 wrote: None of you gave legit options to say replace them yet some of you keep talking like you have an answer for it.

WHO ARE YOU REPLACING THEM WITH?


anybody willing to tackle without getting a 15 yard penalty while doing it

A guy who will keep his mouth shut on the radio so his team doesn't get hit with a fine..

A guy who will play within the system and stop freelancing that results in your corner getting burned.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 2:51 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Personally, I'm hoping we let both go for the cap room, as much as I love them.
Ray is a shell of what he was.  Ed still is pretty good, but his price tag will likely be too steep given the other priorities the team needs to take care of (i.e. Flacco).

Agreed - great teams do not overpay aging players. Whoever wants to let Ellerbe or Kruger go is not thinking straight. Ellerbe is now our best ILB on a team that has had trouble stopping the run up the gut. Kruger has evolved as a good young pass rusher in a league where pass rushers are vital and on a team that is devoid of edge rushers. Do we really want to let Kruger walk when we don't know for sure that Sizzle will ever be 100% again?

I love Ray and what he had meant, but the team has to move on. Reed has lost a few steps and is getting beat deep and cannot tackle.

What I would like to know is who the Ravens could draft/sign at the nose tackle position...
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Posted: 1/2/2013 4:19 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



jpatrick62 wrote: Personally, I'm hoping we let both go for the cap room, as much as I love them.
Ray is a shell of what he was.  Ed still is pretty good, but his price tag will likely be too steep given the other priorities the team needs to take care of (i.e. Flacco).

Agreed - great teams do not overpay aging players. Whoever wants to let Ellerbe or Kruger go is not thinking straight. Ellerbe is now our best ILB on a team that has had trouble stopping the run up the gut. Kruger has evolved as a good young pass rusher in a league where pass rushers are vital and on a team that is devoid of edge rushers. Do we really want to let Kruger walk when we don't know for sure that Sizzle will ever be 100% again?

I love Ray and what he had meant, but the team has to move on.

Reed has lost a few steps and is getting beat deep and cannot tackle.


What I would like to know is who the Ravens could draft/sign at the nose tackle position...
If this were true he wouldn't still be "pretty good." He would be CUT. And if they think it's true, they will "cut" him by not re-signing him. It's gonna be interesting.

Well, we got Kemo this year, anybody else sitting around their house eating Bon Bon's?
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Posted: 1/2/2013 4:57 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


The end of an era but I do welcome the cap room
...and don't call me Shirley
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Posted: 1/2/2013 5:02 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Ray can be replaced on the field. It is his leadership that will be missed. His ability to raise the level of players and coaches around him.

Ed reed was an amazing player. Operative word was. He is a liability to the team. The man can not tackle and rarely makes plays anymore. He is regularly out of position and exposes our corners regularly. We can't resign him. The play is not representative or the pay he thinks he is worth.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 5:08 PM

RE: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


The 2012 versions of Reed and Lewis are not hard to replace on the football field. What's hard to replace is their experience and Lewis's standard of expectations. Given the discipline issues this team has on the football field and the dumbness of its players, I'm hoping that our HC can step up and command excellence from other players.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 5:15 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Ellerbe and Bynes were actually pretty impressive as a tandem. It looked to me like Ellerbe was pretty good in pass defense and Bynes was a beast in run support. It was an effective balance, not that Ellerbe isn't good against the run too.

Not sure if this is sustainable or not, but for 1 week, they looked to me like they complemented each other very well.

I think Jimmy Smith should get a shot on the back end. Look at the job McCourty's doing for NE back there. Let him compete with Thompson and the others for the job next to Pollard.

He could be a hybrid player in the secondary. My only question is, does he study enough to cross-train? The ability to play both positions, physically, is certainly there. He could be a difference maker back there, if he would only put in the work.

They better draft a DT or a OLT 1st, or an edge rusher to replace Kruger when he goes in FA.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 5:26 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



DiscoJamal wrote: The end of an era but I do welcome the cap room

roughly $4 million.  See you in Canton in 2017
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Posted: 1/2/2013 8:32 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



joeshmoe wrote: Ray can be replaced on the field. It is his leadership that will be missed. His ability to raise the level of players and coaches around him.

Ed reed was an amazing player. Operative word was. He is a liability to the team. The man can not tackle and rarely makes plays anymore. He is regularly out of position and exposes our corners regularly. We can't resign him. The play is not representative or the pay he thinks he is worth.
The funny thing about Reed is that obviously with his bad neck/shoulder he for the most part is not a good tackler, but when he actually decides to fly to the ball and hit someone, he is LIGHTS OUT! You can actually make an argument that when he decides to put his injuries aside and tackle someone, he is the one of the best tacklers and hardest hitters on the team. Just as Victor Cruzcool
WAKEY WAKEY OZZIE, TIME TO SPEND SOME MONEY!
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Posted: 1/2/2013 9:58 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Replace them with who? 

A good start would be someone who makes less money. We have our cap prioritized not to spend 6+ mill per year on a safety. Unless your name is Patrick Willis your ILB shouldn't be getting that either.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 10:36 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



DeltaRaven wrote: Replace them with who? 

A good start would be someone who makes less money. We have our cap prioritized not to spend 6+ mill per year on a safety. Unless your name is Patrick Willis your ILB shouldn't be getting that either.
I am not fond of the team signing ILBs to high paying contracts.  This defense has proved it can remain top ten or better with UDFA ILBs and to a degree at the safety position.  What we can't live without are good corners, DEs and OLBs.
Baltimore Ravens 2014 mojo!  Here we go!
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Posted: 1/2/2013 11:45 PM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


What we can't live without are good corners, DEs and OLBs.

I agree on 2/3 counts. Good DE's and OLBs (presumably that can apply pressure) make corners looks better. We also need a very strong NT to rebound as a top tiered defense.
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Posted: 1/3/2013 1:37 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 



akacrow wrote:
DeltaRaven wrote: Replace them with who? 

A good start would be someone who makes less money. We have our cap prioritized not to spend 6+ mill per year on a safety. Unless your name is Patrick Willis your ILB shouldn't be getting that either.
I am not fond of the team signing ILBs to high paying contracts.  This defense has proved it can remain top ten or better with UDFA ILBs and to a degree at the safety position.  What we can't live without are good corners, DEs and OLBs.
I agree, with so many Ds shifting to the 3-4 and blockers able to neutralize one LB, the ILB position is not as important as it used to be. Plenty of defenses are doing fine with average LBs.
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Posted: 1/3/2013 3:24 AM

Re: So fans want Lewis and Reed gone and replace them with who? 


Ed still is not a good tackler. Launching yourself into a wr who doesn't see you coming doesn't make you a good tackler. His inability to hit and wrap as well as his inability to support the run is a big problem for us.
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