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Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher)

Posted: 12/27/2012 11:28 PM

Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


@Jared Gaither-what really happened?

Back injury, motivation issues, front office issues "dog house"

Why couldn't we pay this man and let him play LT?

I know this has been visited a thousand times but we had the guy in-house and let him slip

Harbaugh...you have made us pay enough with Mike Oher as your LT

Can we get a real LT for real. He won't even play B McKinnie

*ducks from rocks*

Last edited 12/27/2012 11:28 PM by NewEraBmore

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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:05 AM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


I think it's time to let Jared Gaither go dude...

He crapped out in Kansas City, parleyed a few really nice games in San Diego into a fat contract and proceeded to sit on his duff to the consternation of Chargers fans.

Gaither is who he is. A very talented player who will never play up to that potential consistently because he is lazy, entitled, and has a poor work ethic.

You'll get no argument from me on McKinnie (in the short term) because he should be playing...but it's been two years for Gaither...time to let it go.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:19 AM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Why couldn't we pay him? Because of exactly what has happened at San Diego after THEY paid him. He's lazy, doesn't keep himself conditioned, and now he's injured again. It's now a never ending cycle with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SBsteelerfan wrote:
 uggh no, im not dense.  according to this dui was for marijuana not alcohol.  so no, he wouldnt have been arrested if weed were legal.


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Posted: 12/28/2012 7:38 AM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


There is a reason why he was kicked off the Terps. Further, as a Supplemental draft pick, he is what he is. Harbaugh did nothing to help matters, but Gaither won't be receiving any 'Keys to the City' any time soon....
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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:59 AM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



21XXXV wrote: There is a reason why he was kicked off the Terps. Further, as a Supplemental draft pick, he is what he is. Harbaugh did nothing to help matters, but Gaither won't be receiving any 'Keys to the City' any time soon....
Indeed, handing someone who isnt deserving of a job so easily, is a terrible principle to lay down, especially with someone like Gaither
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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:34 AM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Right.

So was replacing an elite LT with an average LT a good idea?

Going from Ogden to Gaither to McKinnie to Oher has gradually killed our offense....
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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:40 AM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 




---------------------------------------------
--- NewEraBmore wrote:

Right.

So was replacing an elite LT with an average LT a good idea?

Going from Ogden to Gaither to McKinnie to Oher has gradually killed our offense....

---------------------------------------------

True but Gaither was NOT the solution.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:50 AM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Gaither always played lights-out for us when he was on the field...I bet Flacco remembers...Gaither at LT and Oher at RT gave him ample time and space.

Off the field...

Back injury...

Last edited 12/28/2012 9:50 AM by NewEraBmore

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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:56 AM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Great insight from the OP - Ogden>Gaither>McKinnie>Oher

I believe had Gaither stayed healthy and motivated he could have been as good as Ogden . But we will never know. I also believe (and of course like the OP I will be "corrected") that the Ravens botched the whole situation. Also it's impossible for me to attribute all of his downfall to attitude as I do believe he has chronic back issues.

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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:57 AM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



NewEraBmore wrote: Gaither always played lights-out for us when he was on the field...I bet Flacco remembers...Gaither at LT and Oher at RT gave him ample time and space.

Off the field...

Back injury...
What is your point?  Yes, we all agree that a healthy, motivated, Jared Gaither is a better option than Oher or McKinnie.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 10:04 AM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



thanksart wrote:

Great insight from the OP - Ogden>Gaither>McKinnie>Oher

I believe had Gaither stayed healthy and motivated he could have been as good as Ogden . But we will never know. I also believe (and of course like the OP I will be "corrected") that the Ravens botched the whole situation. Also it's impossible for me to attribute all of his downfall to attitude as I do believe he has chronic back issues.


This represents my opinion on the subject, perfectly...

It just makes you wonder why we couldn't play him at LT.

Oh yeah, we... brought in "blindside Michael Oher" and determined he would be our LT at all costs.

They tried to make Gaither our RT...he refused just like he refused to play RT @ UMD when Stephon Heyer returned from injury...so he sat out and the situation got sticky...

Then we ended up with one of the worst starting LTs in pro football (I think he is a DOMINANT RT tho...)

Last edited 12/28/2012 10:08 AM by NewEraBmore

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Posted: 12/28/2012 10:32 AM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



theravenkidd wrote:
21XXXV wrote: There is a reason why he was kicked off the Terps. Further, as a Supplemental draft pick, he is what he is. Harbaugh did nothing to help matters, but Gaither won't be receiving any 'Keys to the City' any time soon....
Indeed, handing someone who isnt deserving of a job so easily, is a terrible principle to lay down, especially with someone like Gaither
I find it funny how you worded that, as Oher has been handed the job not once but TWICE with no competition over an obviously superior player. 

Makes you go hmmmm....

I'll mostly stay out of this discussion at this point though...   I'm probably still ona  few ignore lists specifically because of Jared Gaither.  

And to think, people were lambasting me constantly for suggesting there was no chance that Oher would ever make a better LT then Gaither was at 23-24 years old in 08 and 09... 

Now it's accepted fact. 

FWIW, Gaither played 99% of one STELLAR game at LT just this season.  IMO, it was the best I HAVE SEEN a LT play in a few years, at least since Long/Thomas started  to decline.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 10:36 AM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Why didn't they trade Joe Flacco for Joe Thomas, that's what I want to know.



Cool Story Bro.
You should tell it at practice.

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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:34 AM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


If Ryan Clady shall become available...we shall do whatever we have to to recruit him to a long-term deal.

Even if it means no Flacco, Lewis, Reed, Birk, etc...
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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:35 AM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



NewEraBmore wrote: If Ryan Clady shall become available...we shall do whatever we have to to recruit him to a long-term deal.

Even if it means no Flacco, Lewis, Reed, Birk, etc...

you lost me at no Flacco.... 

Flacco is this team's top priority by a mile...
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:02 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Jonboy...I 100% agree...but Flacco with Oher @ LT is average...Flacco with a good LT is SuperBowl...

Alls im saying is that on offense, the LT and QB are top priorities and work as a tandem...

I think Tyrod playing with Clady at LT would be better than Flacco with Oher at LT...key is the LT...

Just my opinion guys, calling it like i see it.

Our offense is twice as effective with an Ogden, McKinnie, or Gaither at LT over Mike Oher.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:11 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


I really don't understand the love for Gaither.  He was talented but not an All-Pro or Ogden-esque by any means.  Further, the guy just wasn't that interested in playing football.  He was more interested in cooking/becoming a chef than playing LT.  His nefarious offseason weight loss, mysterious back injury and non-existent work ethic doomed him here just like it did in San Diego...the only difference being that BAL was smart enough to not sign him to a monster deal. 

As far as Oher v. McKinnie is concerned, I don't think the difference between these two is as great as many poster on here state. Sure, McKinnie is more physically suited to play LT but he also is out of shape, ill-suited for the hurry-up offense the team wants to employ and fails to show any type of consistency with respect to his effort during a game (i.e, he takes plays off).  If you are a coach and are honestly trying to run a meritocracy in your locker room, its really hard to put McKinnie out there over Oher - you will lose all credibility.  Oher gives great effort, shows up to work every day and works hard, is in the training room during every OTA and mini-camp and is an all-around team player (never complaining about being switched back and forth b/t RT and LT but rather doing what is best for the team in a given situaton).  Not to mention the developmental aspects of playing Oher and KO.  McKinnie is not going to be on the team next year. KO is a raw rookie who they have slated for T in the future and Oher is going to be a FA soon and is finally playing a full season at LT.   Might as well see what you have with them, let them take their lumps and their growing pains  so that you can be in a position in the offseason to either a) draft or sign a free agent if you don't think Oher or KO can handle the position or b) begin to negotiate with Oher as his rookie deal enters its final year.  This, as opposed to starting McKinnie who MAY (and I enphasize MAY) be better at T than Oher for 50% of the plays. 

Just my opinion.
EARL WEAVER 310


They played baseball the Oriole Way; an organizational ethic that hard work, professionalism, and a strong understanding of fundamentals were the keys to success at the major league level.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:13 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



NewEraBmore wrote: Jonboy...I 100% agree...but Flacco with Oher @ LT is average...Flacco with a good LT is SuperBowl...

Alls im saying is that on offense, the LT and QB are top priorities and work as a tandem...

I think Tyrod playing with Clady at LT would be better than Flacco with Oher at LT...key is the LT...

Just my opinion guys, calling it like i see it.

Our offense is twice as effective with an Ogden, McKinnie, or Gaither at LT over Mike Oher.
I am lockstep with you except for Tyrod/CLady being better then Flacco/Oher.  QB is the number one priority for any team, once they have a QB they can look elsewhere, primarily LT, WR and even RB.  Well, we have(assuming Flacco is retaind) QB. WR(Torrey) and 2 RB's, so LT is CLEARLY the biggest need on the entire team, after retaining FLacco IMO.  I'm a huge Clady Fan and would do whatever was possible to get him, including cutting Boldin, Birk  and Ray Lewis, allowing Reed and Ellerbe to walk, but if it can't ahppen it can't happen. 

I believe Vollmer is up for FA, and I think he could be a contender for Buy low.  He's played RT thus far in NE but I believe he has LT ability and has had 2 consecutive Ngata like injury plagued seasons.  Brandon ALbert is another second tier player available and the draft looks reasonable for LT's.  I'd trade our top 2 picks for the right guy, but as you point out, after Flacco, IMO LT is BY FAR the most important thing to focus on this upcoming offseason. 


And yes, I do know this defense is littered with injuries, filled out with UDFAs', and has the potential to lose it's two main leaders(HOFers).
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:13 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Based on what?  Have you seen Tyrod play outside of a few preseason games and garbage time in some blowouts? Do you attend practices and film sessions?  There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for the statement that Clady and Taylor > Oher and Flacco. 
NewEraBmore wrote: Jonboy...I 100% agree...but Flacco with Oher @ LT is average...Flacco with a good LT is SuperBowl...

Alls im saying is that on offense, the LT and QB are top priorities and work as a tandem...

I think Tyrod playing with Clady at LT would be better than Flacco with Oher at LT...key is the LT...

Just my opinion guys, calling it like i see it.

Our offense is twice as effective with an Ogden, McKinnie, or Gaither at LT over Mike Oher.
EARL WEAVER 310


They played baseball the Oriole Way; an organizational ethic that hard work, professionalism, and a strong understanding of fundamentals were the keys to success at the major league level.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:14 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


If this thread is about Bryant McKinnie, I'm on board, because he's on this team, and he should be playing...but if we're talking Jared Gaither...

Gaither has been gone two years (three if you count his mysterious, year-long, conveniently-timed "back injury"). He's gone, and not coming back. We might as well be wishing we had Jamie Sharper to play ILB.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:29 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



EarlWeaver310 wrote: Based on what?  Have you seen Tyrod play outside of a few preseason games and garbage time in some blowouts? Do you attend practices and film sessions?  There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for the statement that Clady and Taylor > Oher and Flacco. 
NewEraBmore wrote: Jonboy...I 100% agree...but Flacco with Oher @ LT is average...Flacco with a good LT is SuperBowl...

Alls im saying is that on offense, the LT and QB are top priorities and work as a tandem...

I think Tyrod playing with Clady at LT would be better than Flacco with Oher at LT...key is the LT...

Just my opinion guys, calling it like i see it.

Our offense is twice as effective with an Ogden, McKinnie, or Gaither at LT over Mike Oher.
You bolded the words, so I'd assume you read them..."I think" means its a matter of opinion only, I did not claim TT + Clady IS better than Flacco + Oher....

I watched every snap of Tyrod Taylor at Virginia Tech, I know his potential pretty well.

Flacco is greater than TT as a passer BUT his long arm/slow delivery/bad footwork can negate this advantage...

Flacco needs a full 3-4 seconds to convert, unlike most QBs in the NFL with short, quick releases.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:47 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


LOL, wow.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 1:21 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


I'd love to get Ryan Clady, but the reality of the matter is that Denver would never let him go with Manning one good hit from retired...and even if by some miracle Clady actually DID hit Free Agency, Baltimore couldn't afford the $10-12 Million / year it would take to land him.

I would take another crack at the draft.

Eric Fisher of Central Michigan is a really good player that would be an excellent fit in the hurry-up, no-huddle, zone-blocking system. He will likely be available late in the 1st round...perhaps into the early 2nd.

I agree that LT is the #1 priority for this team (after Flacco)...but with the cap situation as it exists (even if Ray retires and Reed is allowed to move on) I think we're going to have to get one organically. I don't think we'll be in a position to buy a legit player at the position.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 1:32 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



naca72 wrote: I'd love to get Ryan Clady, but the reality of the matter is that Denver would never let him go with Manning one good hit from retired...and even if by some miracle Clady actually DID hit Free Agency, Baltimore couldn't afford the $10-12 Million / year it would take to land him.

I would take another crack at the draft.

Eric Fisher of Central Michigan is a really good player that would be an excellent fit in the hurry-up, no-huddle, zone-blocking system. He will likely be available late in the 1st round...perhaps into the early 2nd.

I agree that LT is the #1 priority for this team (after Flacco)...but with the cap situation as it exists (even if Ray retires and Reed is allowed to move on) I think we're going to have to get one organically. I don't think we'll be in a position to buy a legit player at the position.
I haven't actually watched Central Michigna play, but fromt he sounds of it, Fisher seems a lot like Joe Staley, a guy that the Ravens very obviously coveted and were sniped by SF, and fell back to Grubbs the next pick.  As much as I was not a huge fan of Staley at the time, he's turned into a fine NFL LT and would gladly take himn on this team. 

Would you say that comparison is fair?
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Posted: 12/28/2012 1:59 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


My $.02, is the Ravens would bode well by Drafting a franchise LT Bookend for years to come. It's risky, and I am not sure this years crop is so good. But sigining a Ryan Clady or another veteran, will cost you so much more money, I'd rather develop our own from the Draft.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 1:59 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Staley is the obvious comparison because he and Fisher are both from CMU, but I actually think Fisher is further.along as a player at the same point in their respective careers.

Fisher is bigger. Staley is just over 6'5"...Fisher is just under 6'8", and has a REALLY long wingspan. Fisher also has the frame to get significantly heavier without losing athleticism. His playing weight this season has been right around 300 lbs...I'd say he can probably get up to 330 lbs within a year or two with an NFL weightroom and nutritionist.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 2:42 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



naca72 wrote: Staley is the obvious comparison because he and Fisher are both from CMU, but I actually think Fisher is further.along as a player at the same point in their respective careers.

Fisher is bigger. Staley is just over 6'5"...Fisher is just under 6'8", and has a REALLY long wingspan. Fisher also has the frame to get significantly heavier without losing athleticism. His playing weight this season has been right around 300 lbs...I'd say he can probably get up to 330 lbs within a year or two with an NFL weightroom and nutritionist.

that sounds great to me. 

Staley is also a good comparison based on predicted draft rankings, and the fact that htey are both a bit light in the arse...  In that pre-draft period iw as calling Staley a dainty little passblocker, and he has since turned into a formidable run blocker.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 2:43 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Of course that makes total sense.  How could I not see that Taylor's above-average performance three years ago for an ACC team would naturally translate into success at the NFL level?  All he needs is a pro-bowl left tackle.  Got it.

The differential between Flacco/Taylor and Clady/Oher is absurd.  Oher is a lot closer to being on the level of Clady/Thomas/Long than Taylor is to being the only QB in NFL history to lead his team to the playoffs his first five years in the league, among other things JF has done for the Ravens.
EARL WEAVER 310


They played baseball the Oriole Way; an organizational ethic that hard work, professionalism, and a strong understanding of fundamentals were the keys to success at the major league level.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 3:08 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Fisher is already a better than average run blocker. Despite being (relatively) light in relation to other top-tier Tackle prospects, he plays strong, and generates pop as both an in-line blocker and in space on the move. Also, he has experience in a spread offense, as well as a more power running system (which is what CMU uses currently).

CMU running back Zurlon Tipton had 1,391 yards and 14 TD for the season (a better RB would have gotten more), and the CMU O-Line gave up only 14 sacks on the year.

Fisher absolutely dominated in the Iowa game, where CMU pulled out the win 32-31.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 3:10 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Good info, thanks.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 3:16 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


EarlWeaver310,

Look man I get it. And your sarcasm is highly effective, lol.

Better LT than Oher: Long/Clady/Thomas/Albert/Brown/Solder/Smith/Fergus on/Beatty/Whitworth/Roos/Gaither/McKinnie/Gross/Ve ldheer/Kalil/Starks/Okung/Williams/Saffold/Glenn/M cNeill/Castonzo/Reiff/Bushrod/Staley/Penn/Monroe/P eters

That puts Oher as the 30th best LT in the league, which will not help Joe and his slow release succeed in the NFL. If anyone needs their QB to have extensive time to make plays, its Baltimore.

TTaylor was simply used as an example (happens to be our #2). I did not claim that TT > Flacco, rather that an elite LT paired with an average QB can be more effective than a poor LT paired with a good-great QB.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 3:51 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


Michael Oher would start for about twelve teams in the NFL at LT. That doesn't make him good. And I sure haven't proclaimed him to be a great LT. But your over the top lunacy is just not founded.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 4:21 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



21XXXV wrote: Michael Oher would start for about twelve teams in the NFL at LT. That doesn't make him good. And I sure haven't proclaimed him to be a great LT. But your over the top lunacy is just not founded.
Without looking at the list of starting tackles, I would say the truth certainly lies in that 20-30 range.  OFf the top of my head, I think i could come up with in the ballpark of 20 better players and 5 worse ones.  Somewhere in there there is some discussion to be had.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 4:28 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


The Ravens had one of the best LTs to ever play the game along with a bunch of career backup QBs, and the offense sucked. It amazes me how quickly people forget what that was like.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 5:18 PM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


deadhorse.gif
NewEraBmore wrote: @Jared Gaither-what really happened?

Back injury, motivation issues, front office issues "dog house"

Why couldn't we pay this man and let him play LT?

I know this has been visited a thousand times but we had the guy in-house and let him slip

Harbaugh...you have made us pay enough with Mike Oher as your LT

Can we get a real LT for real. He won't even play B McKinnie

*ducks from rocks*
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Posted: 12/28/2012 6:52 PM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


I know it's an old theme.

But it's seriously hindering our offensive development as a unit.

It's gotta change. C'mon Ozzie, we need a young, affordable tackle in the Clady mold.


Change of topic, but Osemele and Reid seem to be capable young NFL starters, do you all agree?
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Posted: 12/28/2012 7:43 PM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 


You aren't serious about Jah Reid at LG, are you? For a man his size, Reid spends more time on the ground than any other Raven O'Lineman. He has zero leverage, and most of the scrutiny that Oher has received from this message board and others including the low brow local media, have come from him trying to over compensate for Reid's poor technique.

Last edited 12/28/2012 7:50 PM by 21XXXV

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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:46 PM

RE: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



21XXXV wrote: My $.02, is the Ravens would bode well by Drafting a franchise LT Bookend for years to come. It's risky, and I am not sure this years crop is so good. But sigining a Ryan Clady or another veteran, will cost you so much more money, I'd rather develop our own from the Draft.
If we're going this route i would much rather have a guy like Mckinnie as insurance policy in the event that rookie doesnt pan out, or doesnt get hurt because if thats the case then we're back at square one with Oher.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:48 PM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



21XXXV wrote: You aren't serious about Jah Reid at LG, are you? For a man his size, Reid spends more time on the ground than any other Raven O'Lineman. He has zero leverage, and most of the scrutiny that Oher has received from this message board and others including the low brow local media, have come from him trying to over compensate for Reid's poor technique.
Hes a pure RT, nothing more, nothing less. Remeber reports out of camp at how he looked at RT??? Great bend, nice footwork, excellent arm length for a tackle, well thats all negated is negated playing guard. 

Once again, suspect coaching decision. Just like making Jameel an ILB instead of using him as Rex intended, which was as a pure rusher.
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Posted: 12/29/2012 8:13 AM

Re: Jared Gaither (McKinnie/Oher) 



NewEraBmore wrote: I know it's an old theme.

But it's seriously hindering our offensive development as a unit.

It's gotta change. C'mon Ozzie, we need a young, affordable tackle in the Clady mold.


Change of topic, but Osemele and Reid seem to be capable young NFL starters, do you all agree?
IMO here what will happen.. Forget McKinnie. He's gone. He can go rip off some team team dumb enough to sign him. Oher WANTS to play RT so here what I do for my line next year. 

LT- sign a free agent
LG-  Osemele
C -  Gradkowski
RG- Yanda
RT- Oher

Reid and Harwood are your back ups and you bring in some young talent (draft or otherwise) to look at during camps.

The key to building the Oline is going to be cap space. We should gain some by finishing a deal with Flacco, taking a lot of dead money off the books in McGahee and Foxworth. Not having to pay Bobbie Williams and McKinnie. And make a decision about Reed and Ray Lewis.  You also have to think about keeping other FA's like Kruger.  Moriarity is going to be very busy the next few months
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