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Time to draft a first round qb

Posted: 12/16/2012 2:24 PM

Time to draft a first round qb 


Caldwell, Cameron, Zorn, Saunders, Jackson

Noone can seem to fix flacco, time to admit he sucks and move on.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 2:28 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 


I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 2:58 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 


I came into the season thinking that, no matter what, the Ravens would franchise Flacco this off season. I still think that will happen, but depending on how much cap room is available, I hope the Ravens either "
1.) Get Alex Smith to back up/push Flacco.
2.) Get Vick to back up/push Flacco.

I don't think either of these are necessarily better than Flacco, but its clear to me they can't go the entire 2013-2014 season with no viable option in case he hits the skids and doesn't progress any further.

Alex Smith could run this offense for 1/2 to a 1/3 of the price Flacco wants.
 
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Posted: 12/16/2012 2:59 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 


I just asked what the Skins miht want for Cousins.
I will NOT root for Michael F ing Vick.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:00 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 


The problem is, there really isn't a first rd QB that the ravens would have a shot at that is actually worth it. And there isn't a better free agent option out there. I think we're stuck with "this". I'm afraid to use other words to describe it right now
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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:07 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



magnified wrote: The problem is, there really isn't a first rd QB that the ravens would have a shot at that is actually worth it. And there isn't a better free agent option out there. I think we're stuck with "this". I'm afraid to use other words to describe it right now
Yeah, absolutely stuck. I think there might be a possibility of Barkley having an Aaron Rodgers like fall this draft, in which case the Ravens "could" be in position to draft him. The problem is I think he could be a cross between Brian Brohm and Mark Sanchez and Flacco is better than that. This QB class is incredibly weak and this offseason will be a lost one for QB unless a former starter is let go and has a 5-6 million cap hit (and even that is probably going to prevent the Ravens from signing someone of that stature).

Tyrod Taylor isn't an NFL caliber starter or back up in my eyes and not having a guy who can step up and take over is a huge problem to have going into next year if they decide to franchise Flacco.

If this team is treading water after 8 games next year, you'd have to evaluate the back up to see if he can be the starter for this team. Having Taylor behind Flacco next year just ensures Flacco gets a second franchise tag or a long term deal. It might not be what I want, but it makes plenty of sense.
 
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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:09 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



AirHead3745 wrote: I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
The problem is, that I'd give this WHOLE GROUP a 5% chance of producing 1 QB better then Flacco.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:12 PM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 


Geez we could sign Ricky Stanzi to put up numbers like today.
No absolutely not to Ryan Mallet. He's a lying druggie.




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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:23 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote: I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
The problem is, that I'd give this WHOLE GROUP a 5% chance of producing 1 QB better then Flacco.
I don't necessarily disagree, but my main concern is cost-benefit.  Their production at the price they'd get might be more cost-effective than what Flacco produces at a horrible price tag (which all indications are his contract expectations are ridiculous).

On second thought, I disagree with Alex Smith.  I think he's fairly comparable in that he can win games as a game manager and it'd be at a more reasonable price than Joe.

Last edited 12/16/2012 3:23 PM by AirHead3745

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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:39 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



AirHead3745 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote: I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
The problem is, that I'd give this WHOLE GROUP a 5% chance of producing 1 QB better then Flacco.
I don't necessarily disagree, but my main concern is cost-benefit.  Their production at the price they'd get might be more cost-effective than what Flacco produces at a horrible price tag (which all indications are his contract expectations are ridiculous).

On second thought, I disagree with Alex Smith.  I think he's fairly comparable in that he can win games as a game manager and it'd be at a more reasonable price than Joe.
Alex Smith was a complete and total bust for 6 or 7 years.  Flacco hasn't even beeen in the league that long.  All it took for Smith was 1 year under a real coach, based on his case, you can't count Flacco out from having a similar leap in the coming seasons.  the difference beign that fi Flacco were to make that same meteoric leap that Smith made with a decent coach he'd be one of the few best QB's in football.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:42 PM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 


Flacco is a fraud. Redskins got the real deal at QB and they went from perennial laughing stock to probable NFC East champs in a year.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:43 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote: I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
The problem is, that I'd give this WHOLE GROUP a 5% chance of producing 1 QB better then Flacco.
I don't necessarily disagree, but my main concern is cost-benefit.  Their production at the price they'd get might be more cost-effective than what Flacco produces at a horrible price tag (which all indications are his contract expectations are ridiculous).

On second thought, I disagree with Alex Smith.  I think he's fairly comparable in that he can win games as a game manager and it'd be at a more reasonable price than Joe.
Alex Smith was a complete and total bust for 6 or 7 years.  Flacco hasn't even beeen in the league that long.  All it took for Smith was 1 year under a real coach, based on his case, you can't count Flacco out from having a similar leap in the coming seasons.  the difference beign that fi Flacco were to make that same meteoric leap that Smith made with a decent coach he'd be one of the few best QB's in football.
Comes down to cost-benefit.

We know Alex Smith can play very good football and the price can be driven down because of poor performance in the past (granted I don't know his contract status at the moment, and we don't know what Flacco will make so it's all speculation).

Do we give Flacco a lucrative extension on potential alone or find the most efficient QB available that we can plug-in at a reasonable price tag?  In the salary cap era, we can't afford to pay big money to someone undeserving.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:45 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



AirHead3745 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote: I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
The problem is, that I'd give this WHOLE GROUP a 5% chance of producing 1 QB better then Flacco.
I don't necessarily disagree, but my main concern is cost-benefit.  Their production at the price they'd get might be more cost-effective than what Flacco produces at a horrible price tag (which all indications are his contract expectations are ridiculous).

On second thought, I disagree with Alex Smith.  I think he's fairly comparable in that he can win games as a game manager and it'd be at a more reasonable price than Joe.
Alex Smith was a complete and total bust for 6 or 7 years.  Flacco hasn't even beeen in the league that long.  All it took for Smith was 1 year under a real coach, based on his case, you can't count Flacco out from having a similar leap in the coming seasons.  the difference beign that fi Flacco were to make that same meteoric leap that Smith made with a decent coach he'd be one of the few best QB's in football.
Comes down to cost-benefit.

We know Alex Smith can play very good football and the price can be driven down because of poor performance in the past (granted I don't know his contract status at the moment, and we don't know what Flacco will make so it's all speculation).

Do we give Flacco a lucrative extension on potential alone or find the most efficient QB available that we can plug-in at a reasonable price tag?  In the salary cap era, we can't afford to pay big money to someone undeserving.
Alex Smith is under contract for I believe another 2 years in the $7-9M range.  I think it would take around a 3rd round pick to trade for him.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:00 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote: I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
The problem is, that I'd give this WHOLE GROUP a 5% chance of producing 1 QB better then Flacco.
I don't necessarily disagree, but my main concern is cost-benefit.  Their production at the price they'd get might be more cost-effective than what Flacco produces at a horrible price tag (which all indications are his contract expectations are ridiculous).

On second thought, I disagree with Alex Smith.  I think he's fairly comparable in that he can win games as a game manager and it'd be at a more reasonable price than Joe.
Alex Smith was a complete and total bust for 6 or 7 years.  Flacco hasn't even beeen in the league that long.  All it took for Smith was 1 year under a real coach, based on his case, you can't count Flacco out from having a similar leap in the coming seasons.  the difference beign that fi Flacco were to make that same meteoric leap that Smith made with a decent coach he'd be one of the few best QB's in football.
Comes down to cost-benefit.

We know Alex Smith can play very good football and the price can be driven down because of poor performance in the past (granted I don't know his contract status at the moment, and we don't know what Flacco will make so it's all speculation).

Do we give Flacco a lucrative extension on potential alone or find the most efficient QB available that we can plug-in at a reasonable price tag?  In the salary cap era, we can't afford to pay big money to someone undeserving.
Alex Smith is under contract for I believe another 2 years in the $7-9M range.  I think it would take around a 3rd round pick to trade for him.
Not if they cut him before he's due a big roster bonus.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:13 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



one800frank wrote: I came into the season thinking that, no matter what, the Ravens would franchise Flacco this off season. I still think that will happen, but depending on how much cap room is available, I hope the Ravens either "
1.) Get Alex Smith to back up/push Flacco.
2.) Get Vick to back up/push Flacco.

I don't think either of these are necessarily better than Flacco, but its clear to me they can't go the entire 2013-2014 season with no viable option in case he hits the skids and doesn't progress any further.

Alex Smith could run this offense for 1/2 to a 1/3 of the price Flacco wants.

1. Niner fans wanted Smith out worse than some Ravens fans want Flacco gone.
2. Hate to let you know this, but Vick sucks. Please put down the Madden controler
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:16 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 


I don't want to be the guy in two years with my head down saying "I guess we should have just moved on".

I think he is a decent QB, and I absolutely believe we should 100% tag him. I don't believe a multi-year deal is our route.

From there, I would look to grab Tyler Wilson out of Arkansas in the first and absolutely put some offensive line talent ahead of Wilson. Whether it's Travis Frederick in the 3rd or Xavier Nixon in the same. I'm still in love with Quanterus Smith so i'm not giving up that 2nd for anyone but him if he is available.

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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:18 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 


Kirk Cousins in his 1st start as a rookie (away), goes 26-37 329 yds with 2TD's and Flacco after 5 yrs still can't figure it out!

Give Washington our 1st round pick and get Cousins as long as we have an OC who knows what they are doing.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:21 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



FLAJIM wrote: Kirk Cousins in his 1st start as a rookie (away), goes 26-37 329 yds with 2TD's and Flacco after 5 yrs still can't figure it out!

Give Washington our 1st round pick and get Cousins as long as we have an OC who knows what they are doing.

lol...   and look how well Kolb did in limited action in Philly...
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:37 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 


If the ravens stay the course with Flacco - and I think they will

we need to go back to being a DEFENSE first team, he can't carry them
...stay classy 'skins fans
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:38 PM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 


I don't see any possibility that it's not going to be the Franchise Tag for Flacco.

The Front Office offered Flacco a good contract, Flacco turned it down because he and his representatives felt he deserved a deal more in line with the "elite" players at the position, and then Flacco has proceeded to sh!t the bed.

I don't imagine that Ozzie is comfortable giving Flacco even the contract that was turned down at this point. The Front Office will likely get their ducks in a row for the backup / alternate situation in this offseason (via the draft, or one of the names mentioned already perhaps).

The coaching staff will do a legitimate search for an Offensive Coordinator (hopefully), and they will give Flacco essentially the same opportunity again this coming season...play extremely well, and you'll be paid...don't, and you'll enter the pantheon of QBs that are just good enough to keep getting a shot from five different teams for the next 10 years, like Vinny Testeverde, Brad Johnson, Jeff George, Neil O'Donnell, etc.

We'll see how it goes.

Last edited 12/16/2012 4:40 PM by naca72

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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:44 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 


---------------------------------------------
--- BertJonesMyHero wrote:

I just asked what the Skins miht want for Cousins.
I will NOT root for Michael F ing Vick.

---------------------------------------------

The qb doesn't come with his own offensive line bert.

Just ask Matt Cassel and the Chiefs or Patriots version of him!!!!!

Last edited 12/16/2012 4:46 PM by BaltimoreReeds

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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:46 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



DiscoJamal wrote: If the ravens stay the course with Flacco - and I think they will

we need to go back to being a DEFENSE first team, he can't carry them
I agree with this. We need to have a deep defensive draft next year and a few O line picks. Let Flacco manage the game and hand the ball off to Rice and Pierce.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:57 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



PurpleHaze86 wrote:
DiscoJamal wrote: If the ravens stay the course with Flacco - and I think they will

we need to go back to being a DEFENSE first team, he can't carry them
I agree with this. We need to have a deep defensive draft next year and a few O line picks. Let Flacco manage the game and hand the ball off to Rice and Pierce.
If this offense plays balanced football Flacco could put up 4000+ a season easy.  Flacco is better than a game manager.  The best part of this is we could actually afford a decent defense if Flacco does not break the bank.
 
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:57 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



PurpleHaze86 wrote:
DiscoJamal wrote: If the ravens stay the course with Flacco - and I think they will

we need to go back to being a DEFENSE first team, he can't carry them
I agree with this. We need to have a deep defensive draft next year and a few O line picks. Let Flacco manage the game and hand the ball off to Rice and Pierce.
So why not get a game manager like Alex Smith who would cost a lot less that Flacco? Flacco will more than likely be franchised which is $14 million for a QB. There's no way the Ravens pay him that much to be a game manager.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 5:59 PM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 


Nor has he earned it.




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Posted: 12/16/2012 6:30 PM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 


In my opinion, Joe Flacco is absolutely the best option we have at QB going forward in the near future.  At our draft position, there is literally no QB worth drafting.  Not even Matt Barkley if he falls there.  Could he turn out, possibly, but it's more likely he's going to be Matt Leinart 2.0.  Personally, the only 2 QBs that stand out to me are Ryan Nassib of Syracuse and Zac Dysert of Miami (Oh).  Those guys are 2nd round talent.

I also feel like replacing Flacco with Alex Smith would be a step backward.  Alex Smith has never proven he can be that guy with endless chances.  The guy really only threw to VD and managed to make VD look average.  I've never been Flacco's biggest supporter (dating back to the moment we drafted him) but I remember him outdueling more QBs than Smith ever did.  And I remember Smith losing more games for his team (19-31 before Harbaugh) than Flacco ever will.  Bringing in Smith would be a crap shoot at best.

I posted this in the draft section but it's hard to speculate what the FO has planned.  The best option going forward is giving Joe Flacco a multi year deal that has option outs in it.  Specifically at the end of the 2014 season, layering a deal with cap hits of 8-13 mil for the next 2 seasons respectively (cheaper than back to back franchise tags).  That would in turn give us an option at the end of 2014 to continue a larger cap number with Flacco. 

If we pick of the option, obviously Flacco turned into the guy we've been waiting for.  If not, we didn't waste the money the franchise tags cost.  And the brightest side of this whole scenario is that there is quite a bit of talent at QB coming up in 2014-2016 drafts.

Whether or not they play their cards like this remains to be seen but this is just one mans opinion.

Last edited 12/16/2012 6:30 PM by SquiFi

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Posted: 12/16/2012 8:28 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



TTroj52 wrote:
PurpleHaze86 wrote:
DiscoJamal wrote: If the ravens stay the course with Flacco - and I think they will

we need to go back to being a DEFENSE first team, he can't carry them
I agree with this. We need to have a deep defensive draft next year and a few O line picks. Let Flacco manage the game and hand the ball off to Rice and Pierce.
So why not get a game manager like Alex Smith who would cost a lot less that Flacco? Flacco will more than likely be franchised which is $14 million for a QB. There's no way the Ravens pay him that much to be a game manager.
This is exactly my mindset.  I want him tag and traded if there is any feasible way to make it happen.

Last edited 12/16/2012 8:28 PM by AirHead3745

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Posted: 12/16/2012 8:31 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 


Looks like the choices would be Barkley or Tyler Wilson in round 1 or EJ Manuel, Glennon, or Landry Jones in the 2nd.  Don't think Barkley would be available when we pick (20 or lower).  Don't think EJ Manuel is the answer.  So, would be Glennon, Wilson, or Jones.  Don't know the other QBs.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 8:54 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote: I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
The problem is, that I'd give this WHOLE GROUP a 5% chance of producing 1 QB better then Flacco.
I don't necessarily disagree, but my main concern is cost-benefit.  Their production at the price they'd get might be more cost-effective than what Flacco produces at a horrible price tag (which all indications are his contract expectations are ridiculous).

On second thought, I disagree with Alex Smith.  I think he's fairly comparable in that he can win games as a game manager and it'd be at a more reasonable price than Joe.
Alex Smith was a complete and total bust for 6 or 7 years. 

Flacco hasn't even beeen in the league that long.  All it took for Smith was 1 year under a real coach, based on his case, you can't count Flacco out from having a similar leap in the coming seasons.  the difference beign that fi Flacco were to make that same meteoric leap that Smith made with a decent coach he'd be one of the few best QB's in football.
THIS is Smith's 7th year. He was NOT a complete and total bust last year, in fact he was pretty good. 

He completed 61.3% and threw for 17 and 5, and had 6 game winning drives. I'm pretty sure we'd take that.

Flacco has never thrown less than 10 picks. Even though he runs the ball less than Smith he has more fumbles.

Smith has 210 rushing attempts and has taken 196 sacks. He has fumbled 44 times.

Flacco has 198 rushing attempts and has taken 173 sacks, He has fumbled 48 times.

That's 45 MORE times being tackled for Smith and 4 LESS fumbles.

Smith is the smarter player, HAS improved over time and is SIGNED for $7.5 mil per year through 2014. His incentives could earn him another $2.5 mil for next year and $1.5 mil in 2014.

I don't love Alex Smith, but he seems a safer bet than Joe Flacco, who is proving to be yet another 1st round QB BUST. 

IF we're going to be content with a game manager, Smith is the safer, cheaper option. He is certainly better than ANY of the options in a REALLY WEAK QB class, and you don't have to suffer thru the learning curve, he is what he is at this point but he IS a veteran player, you know what you're getting.

IF you stay with Flacco for a lot more cap hit or make a deal for Smith, either way our D HAS to get MUCH better or we will NOT seriously compete for a SB next year. The money has to again be invested in the D, both draft picks and FA. 

AND, we're going to have to free up some money to do it. Say goodbye to Joe, Ray, Ed, and Q and you have resources to work with.

Smith would be worth our late 1st round pick in my mind because he is an upgrade over Flacco, even if slight, because ANY improvement is a good thing AND because of the positive impact on our cap situation. I think we're looking at either a scenario like this OR franchising Flacco, killing the cap for 2013. I CAN'T BELIEVE this FO would make a long term mistake on Flacco, so a 1 year (desperation) franchise tag seems likely to me.

It seems to me the 49er's would jump at this since they don't want him anyway and could grab a 1st round pick AND improve THEIR cap situation.

If we don't do it, some other team will.
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Posted: 12/16/2012 9:38 PM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 


As a Sooner fan I have watched a lot of Landry Jones. He is the college version of Flacco. So just say no to Jones.




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Posted: 12/16/2012 10:03 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



akacrow wrote:
PurpleHaze86 wrote:
DiscoJamal wrote: If the ravens stay the course with Flacco - and I think they will

we need to go back to being a DEFENSE first team, he can't carry them
I agree with this. We need to have a deep defensive draft next year and a few O line picks. Let Flacco manage the game and hand the ball off to Rice and Pierce.
If this offense plays balanced football Flacco could put up 4000+ a season easy.  Flacco is better than a game manager.  The best part of this is we could actually afford a decent defense if Flacco does not break the bank.

But he WILL and he ISN'T. I will really lose faith in this FO if they give Flacco anything more than $10 mil a year for 5 - 7 years. If they have to franchise him for even 1 year, it hurts our ability to upgrade our D, which will be essential if we keep Flacco.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:09 AM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



zeusman52 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote: I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
The problem is, that I'd give this WHOLE GROUP a 5% chance of producing 1 QB better then Flacco.
I don't necessarily disagree, but my main concern is cost-benefit.  Their production at the price they'd get might be more cost-effective than what Flacco produces at a horrible price tag (which all indications are his contract expectations are ridiculous).

On second thought, I disagree with Alex Smith.  I think he's fairly comparable in that he can win games as a game manager and it'd be at a more reasonable price than Joe.
Alex Smith was a complete and total bust for 6 or 7 years. 

Flacco hasn't even beeen in the league that long.  All it took for Smith was 1 year under a real coach, based on his case, you can't count Flacco out from having a similar leap in the coming seasons.  the difference beign that fi Flacco were to make that same meteoric leap that Smith made with a decent coach he'd be one of the few best QB's in football.
THIS is Smith's 7th year. He was NOT a complete and total bust last year, in fact he was pretty good. 

He completed 61.3% and threw for 17 and 5, and had 6 game winning drives. I'm pretty sure we'd take that.

Flacco has never thrown less than 10 picks. Even though he runs the ball less than Smith he has more fumbles.

Smith has 210 rushing attempts and has taken 196 sacks. He has fumbled 44 times.

Flacco has 198 rushing attempts and has taken 173 sacks, He has fumbled 48 times.

That's 45 MORE times being tackled for Smith and 4 LESS fumbles.

Smith is the smarter player, HAS improved over time and is SIGNED for $7.5 mil per year through 2014. His incentives could earn him another $2.5 mil for next year and $1.5 mil in 2014.

I don't love Alex Smith, but he seems a safer bet than Joe Flacco, who is proving to be yet another 1st round QB BUST. 

IF we're going to be content with a game manager, Smith is the safer, cheaper option. He is certainly better than ANY of the options in a REALLY WEAK QB class, and you don't have to suffer thru the learning curve, he is what he is at this point but he IS a veteran player, you know what you're getting.

IF you stay with Flacco for a lot more cap hit or make a deal for Smith, either way our D HAS to get MUCH better or we will NOT seriously compete for a SB next year. The money has to again be invested in the D, both draft picks and FA. 

AND, we're going to have to free up some money to do it. Say goodbye to Joe, Ray, Ed, and Q and you have resources to work with.

Smith would be worth our late 1st round pick in my mind because he is an upgrade over Flacco, even if slight, because ANY improvement is a good thing AND because of the positive impact on our cap situation. I think we're looking at either a scenario like this OR franchising Flacco, killing the cap for 2013. I CAN'T BELIEVE this FO would make a long term mistake on Flacco, so a 1 year (desperation) franchise tag seems likely to me.

It seems to me the 49er's would jump at this since they don't want him anyway and could grab a 1st round pick AND improve THEIR cap situation.

If we don't do it, some other team will.
Out of Smith's 7 seasons, he has had 5 that were markedly worse then any season Flacco has had, and 2 that are in the same ballpark.  the kid has this moniker of a game manager from 1 year with the leagues best defense and a whole rack of offensive weapons.  His ceiling is Flacco's floor.  If Flacco is going to cost DOUBLE Smith, then I can see making a move, if we end up with a SIGNIFICANT net positive in picks.  Anything short of double salary and a getting a first or more then we would have to trade to get Smith and it makes no sense whatsoever.  Smith has topped out at barely adequate with the best team in football around him.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:57 AM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 


How about Vince Young? Worth a look if he has improved his attitude.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:17 PM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 


This team needs an entire reload.  Its not a QB away.  This thinking is a hubris that Ravens fans have, and need to drop.


You need a Safety, 2 LBs, and another quality Defensive lineman - 2 if Kruger leaves.

You need depth at Guard, MIGHT need a center.  Don't have a top 10 LT.  

Might need another WR if you can't resign Jacoby Jones and Boldin is gone.

This team is the walking wounded.   Flacco gets franchised and gets a shot.  You spend the draft picks on what quickly became an aged and injured roster.

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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:24 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



jonboy79 wrote:
zeusman52 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
AirHead3745 wrote: I think it's definitely time to come up with a transition plan.

Either look towards the future with the draft or trade for one of the backups around the league (in no particular order, just possibilities):

1) Alex Smith
2) Kirk Cousins
3) Matt Flynn
4) Ryan Mallett

I wish we could tag-n-trade Flacco to the Chiefs, but not sure that's feasible.
The problem is, that I'd give this WHOLE GROUP a 5% chance of producing 1 QB better then Flacco.
I don't necessarily disagree, but my main concern is cost-benefit.  Their production at the price they'd get might be more cost-effective than what Flacco produces at a horrible price tag (which all indications are his contract expectations are ridiculous).

On second thought, I disagree with Alex Smith.  I think he's fairly comparable in that he can win games as a game manager and it'd be at a more reasonable price than Joe.
Alex Smith was a complete and total bust for 6 or 7 years. 

Flacco hasn't even beeen in the league that long.  All it took for Smith was 1 year under a real coach, based on his case, you can't count Flacco out from having a similar leap in the coming seasons.  the difference beign that fi Flacco were to make that same meteoric leap that Smith made with a decent coach he'd be one of the few best QB's in football.
THIS is Smith's 7th year. He was NOT a complete and total bust last year, in fact he was pretty good. 

He completed 61.3% and threw for 17 and 5, and had 6 game winning drives. I'm pretty sure we'd take that.

Flacco has never thrown less than 10 picks. Even though he runs the ball less than Smith he has more fumbles.

Smith has 210 rushing attempts and has taken 196 sacks. He has fumbled 44 times.

Flacco has 198 rushing attempts and has taken 173 sacks, He has fumbled 48 times.

That's 45 MORE times being tackled for Smith and 4 LESS fumbles.

Smith is the smarter player, HAS improved over time and is SIGNED for $7.5 mil per year through 2014. His incentives could earn him another $2.5 mil for next year and $1.5 mil in 2014.

I don't love Alex Smith, but he seems a safer bet than Joe Flacco, who is proving to be yet another 1st round QB BUST. 

IF we're going to be content with a game manager, Smith is the safer, cheaper option. He is certainly better than ANY of the options in a REALLY WEAK QB class, and you don't have to suffer thru the learning curve, he is what he is at this point but he IS a veteran player, you know what you're getting.

IF you stay with Flacco for a lot more cap hit or make a deal for Smith, either way our D HAS to get MUCH better or we will NOT seriously compete for a SB next year. The money has to again be invested in the D, both draft picks and FA. 

AND, we're going to have to free up some money to do it. Say goodbye to Joe, Ray, Ed, and Q and you have resources to work with.

Smith would be worth our late 1st round pick in my mind because he is an upgrade over Flacco, even if slight, because ANY improvement is a good thing AND because of the positive impact on our cap situation. I think we're looking at either a scenario like this OR franchising Flacco, killing the cap for 2013. I CAN'T BELIEVE this FO would make a long term mistake on Flacco, so a 1 year (desperation) franchise tag seems likely to me.

It seems to me the 49er's would jump at this since they don't want him anyway and could grab a 1st round pick AND improve THEIR cap situation.

If we don't do it, some other team will.
Out of Smith's 7 seasons, he has had 5 that were markedly worse then any season Flacco has had, and 2 that are in the same ballpark.  the kid has this moniker of a game manager from 1 year with the leagues best defense and a whole rack of offensive weapons.  His ceiling is Flacco's floor.  If Flacco is going to cost DOUBLE Smith, then I can see making a move, if we end up with a SIGNIFICANT net positive in picks.  Anything short of double salary and a getting a first or more then we would have to trade to get Smith and it makes no sense whatsoever.  Smith has topped out at barely adequate with the best team in football around him.
The 2 years you are referring to are the MOST RECENT 2, so, can we at least agree that they are the MOST RELEVANT 2?

By WHAT objective measure do you base your assessment that Flacco is worth MORE THAN TWICE Alex Smith?

What do Joe Flacco's most recent 2 years look like? Looks like a regression to me, both by eye test and objective measurement.

Alex Smith, over the last 2 year's, has 30 TD's and 10 picks. Can we at least agree that is excellent? Go ahead and cherry pick ANY 2 Flacco years, put them together, and you won't come anywhere near close to 3:1. I'm guessing you won't do this because it's inconvenient to the argument that Flacco = TWICE Smith.

Does the SF defense PASS BLOCK for Smith now too?

Smith's CEILING is Flacco's FLOOR?   LOL..............

Based on WHAT, exactly?  As objective as you are capable of please.

It's apparent that Smith has become at least a little bit more than a game manager, and, sadly, Flacco hasn't.

But go ahead, prove me wrong, but please do it with FACTS, not "because I say so." Neither of us are professional scouts, so our "eye test" lacks gravitas. Sorry, but true.

To say that Flacco is worth more than twice Smith, in the face of ACTUAL EVIDENCE to the contrary, is patently ridiculous.

Go ahead, you can start with the "Joe doesn't have enough weapons," "our O-line sucks," and "SF's D is great and that's why Smith looks better than he is" posts.

ONE thing remains CERTAIN, our Defense will NEVER be as good as SF's is (right now) if we keep making STUPID salary cap decisions.

I fear we're about to make another one, but I hope I'm wrong...........
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:41 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



zeusman52 wrote:
The 2 years you are referring to are the MOST RECENT 2, so, can we at least agree that they are the MOST RELEVANT 2?

By WHAT objective measure do you base your assessment that Flacco is worth MORE THAN TWICE Alex Smith?

What do Joe Flacco's most recent 2 years look like? Looks like a regression to me, both by eye test and objective measurement.

Alex Smith, over the last 2 year's, has 30 TD's and 10 picks. Can we at least agree that is excellent? Go ahead and cherry pick ANY 2 Flacco years, put them together, and you won't come anywhere near close to 3:1. I'm guessing you won't do this because it's inconvenient to the argument that Flacco = TWICE Smith.

Does the SF defense PASS BLOCK for Smith now too?

Smith's CEILING is Flacco's FLOOR?   LOL..............

Based on WHAT, exactly?  As objective as you are capable of please.

It's apparent that Smith has become at least a little bit more than a game manager, and, sadly, Flacco hasn't.

But go ahead, prove me wrong, but please do it with FACTS, not "because I say so." Neither of us are professional scouts, so our "eye test" lacks gravitas. Sorry, but true.

To say that Flacco is worth more than twice Smith, in the face of ACTUAL EVIDENCE to the contrary, is patently ridiculous.

Go ahead, you can start with the "Joe doesn't have enough weapons," "our O-line sucks," and "SF's D is great and that's why Smith looks better than he is" posts.

ONE thing remains CERTAIN, our Defense will NEVER be as good as SF's is (right now) if we keep making STUPID salary cap decisions.

I fear we're about to make another one, but I hope I'm wrong...........
I actually was saying that Joe Flacco is worth jsut SOUTH of double Smith, not just North. 

Alex Smith has only done what he has, managed a game, with what is EASILY, the most talented team in football when you remove QB from the equation.   ONe of, if nto the best D's in football.  Major weapons that make our offensive skill players look pathetic, and a line that dwarfs ours with s single glance.  It's not CLOSE who is in the better situation, yet Flacco has won playoff games 4 years in a row, and Smith has what, 1 or 2 career playoff wins? 

Smith is older, and a track record of mediocrity at best.   Flacco has a higher career QB rating, more TD's in less games and less Interceptions.   A half yard better per attempt, and less fumbles.   Smith has never thrown 20 TD's, Flacco has every year since his rookie year.  Smith's highest yardage total of 3144 yards has been eclipsed by Flacco every year since his rookie year.  So again, Flacco worsst year, his rookie year, was similar to Smith's best, excpet for the obvious turnover difference.  The difference being, that no QB in football is asked to do less with more then Alex Smith.  So yes, Flacco's Floor is Smith's ceiling.  The best you can expect from Smith is around 3k yards and 17 TD's.  Well, we have gotten more then that out of Flacco basically every single year, despite a MARKED difference in weapons.  Basically the only thing Smith does better then Flacco is rush the football, and Flacco has more career rushing TD's.  The lack of trust in Smith is made painfully obvious by the fact that Flacco has thrown more passes in his shorter career.    Flacco has yet to miss a game.  He is more drable and reliable. 

Need any more?
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:06 PM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 


Look up smith's numbers. The guy was not a bust. His supporting cast sucked. He played decent considering. Played very well last season and was playing even better this year when he lost his job for no reason at all!
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:14 PM

RE: Time to draft a first round qb 



joeshmoe wrote: Look up smith's numbers. The guy was not a bust. His supporting cast sucked. He played decent considering. Played very well last season and was playing even better this year when he lost his job for no reason at all!

I jsut did...  Never thrown for 20 td's, last season included, had never broken 3k yards prior to last year.  Last Year he had BY FAR the best supporting cast in football, with Houston a pretty distant second place, and further down the Jets, a few more teams and perhaps the Ravens, a bit better then mid pack.  He's done less with mroe then any other QB in football.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:18 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



boller4president wrote: Caldwell, Cameron, Zorn, Saunders, Jackson

Noone can seem to fix flacco, time to admit he sucks and move on.
eek1  Unbelievable!

Anyone playing QB for the Ravens would still be throwing to mediocre receivers behind a inept OL.banghead  Did you notice how many times Flacco was on the turf last Sunday?  Only one roughing the passer penalty was called - there were at least 4 late hits.  With our porous OL, getting another QB - not tough like Flacco - would get him on the IR.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:26 PM

Re: Time to draft a first round qb 



jonboy79 wrote:
 
I actually was saying that Joe Flacco is worth jsut SOUTH of double Smith, not just North. 

Alex Smith has only done what he has, managed a game, with what is EASILY, the most talented team in football when you remove QB from the equation.   ONe of, if nto the best D's in football.  Major weapons that make our offensive skill players look pathetic, and a line that dwarfs ours with s single glance.  It's not CLOSE who is in the better situation, yet Flacco has won playoff games 4 years in a row, and Smith has what, 1 or 2 career playoff wins? 

Smith is older, and a track record of mediocrity at best.   Flacco has a higher career QB rating, more TD's in less games and less Interceptions.   A half yard better per attempt, and less fumbles.   Smith has never thrown 20 TD's, Flacco has every year since his rookie year.  Smith's highest yardage total of 3144 yards has been eclipsed by Flacco every year since his rookie year.  So again, Flacco worsst year, his rookie year, was similar to Smith's best, excpet for the obvious turnover difference.  The difference being, that no QB in football is asked to do less with more then Alex Smith.  So yes, Flacco's Floor is Smith's ceiling.  The best you can expect from Smith is around 3k yards and 17 TD's.  Well, we have gotten more then that out of Flacco basically every single year, despite a MARKED difference in weapons.  Basically the only thing Smith does better then Flacco is rush the football, and Flacco has more career rushing TD's.  The lack of trust in Smith is made painfully obvious by the fact that Flacco has thrown more passes in his shorter career.    Flacco has yet to miss a game.  He is more drable and reliable. 

Need any more?
Great post.  This board has been taken over by a few loud, aggressive posters, it's not even worth reading right now.  It's nice to see a sane post like this every once in a while.
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