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Ray Lewis Myth

Posted: 11/26/2012 3:50 PM

Ray Lewis Myth 


Here's everybody favorite player and inspitational leader and yada yada yada, but the bottom line is that this team is 7-1 without Ray the last two years. His production and the importance of his position is negligible at this point. I know the media spins this into something it's not, but let's face it, dude ain't that important anymore.. We need to think about getting that money due next year and allocating it into someone else.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 3:53 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


Some of what you say is true, but going there right now is bad mojo.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 3:57 PM

RE: Ray Lewis Myth 


The ILB position isn't that important any more, he has lost a couple of steps and it's time for him to retire. I hope he can stay around as a LB's coach or something. I definitely want his attitude around this team, but we can use the cap space and money. But we have a thread about this already.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 4:28 PM

RE: Ray Lewis Myth 


ILB is just as important- just harder to expose.

Pat Willis and Novorro Bowman are still making just as big of an impact as ever- elite ILB talent just isnt around like it used to be.

3-4 ILB prototype has slowly transferring to a Lawrence Timmons type- cover run hit pass rush and call the defense.

CBs and DE/OLB are getting all the attention due to big plays, but the ILB is still as valuable as ever.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 4:52 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Rza52 wrote: Some of what you say is true, but going there right now is bad mojo.
yup, right there with Woodley's Piss towel mojo voodoo curse on RR
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Posted: 11/26/2012 6:41 PM

RE: Ray Lewis Myth 



NewEraBmore wrote: 

3-4 ILB prototype has slowly transferring to a Lawrence Timmons type- cover run hit pass rush and call the defense.



When has a prototype LB ever been anything other than somebody who can cover, run, hit, pass rush and call defense aka somebody that can do it all?  

What has the prototype transferred from, somebody who could only do some things but not all?

Last edited 11/26/2012 6:41 PM by ForbiddenDonut

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Posted: 11/26/2012 8:35 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



SpankyJohnson wrote: Here's everybody favorite player and inspitational leader and yada yada yada, but the bottom line is that this team is 7-1 without Ray the last two years. His production and the importance of his position is negligible at this point. I know the media spins this into something it's not, but let's face it, dude ain't that important anymore.. We need to think about getting that money due next year and allocating it into someone else.
Your entire premise is invalid because you used the term 'bottom line' in its presentation, thus proving just how ingrained Ray Lewis is to this community. excited
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Posted: 11/26/2012 10:29 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Skipjacks wrote:
SpankyJohnson wrote: Here's everybody favorite player and inspitational leader and yada yada yada, but the bottom line is that this team is 7-1 without Ray the last two years. His production and the importance of his position is negligible at this point. I know the media spins this into something it's not, but let's face it, dude ain't that important anymore.. We need to think about getting that money due next year and allocating it into someone else.
Your entire premise is invalid because you used the term 'bottom line' in its presentation, thus proving just how ingrained Ray Lewis is to this community. excited
At the end of the day, that's the bottom line.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 10:53 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


Very uneducated opinion. First of all the dline play has improved since Suggs came back. He isn't killing it but he requires attention. Freeing up other guys to make plays. Cody has played a little better. Arthur jones and Kruger have been playing well the last 2-3 weeks. The dline Was the reason we were struggling and now it is the reason the d is playing better. Their improvement makes our lbs and DBS look better as well. Lbs are free to run to the ball. The pass rush is helps DBS in coverage.

Ellerbe is the best lb on the squad. He has been for the last couple years. The guy is a playmaker. McClain should be the guy sitting when ray comes back
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Posted: 11/26/2012 11:13 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


Ray is past his prime but in no way is he a myth. He is arguably the greatest to play the Linebacker position.  You are no fan of the Baltimore Ravens.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 11:44 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Skipjacks wrote:
SpankyJohnson wrote: Here's everybody favorite player and inspitational leader and yada yada yada, but the bottom line is that this team is 7-1 without Ray the last two years. His production and the importance of his position is negligible at this point. I know the media spins this into something it's not, but let's face it, dude ain't that important anymore.. We need to think about getting that money due next year and allocating it into someone else.
Your entire premise is invalid because you used the term 'bottom line' in its presentation, thus proving just how ingrained Ray Lewis is to this community. excited
lolol
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Posted: 11/27/2012 6:26 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


Spoiled brat Raven fans.

When they get what they want, they want to trash the player that has been there since day 1.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 7:15 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



joeshmoe wrote: Very uneducated opinion. First of all the dline play has improved since Suggs came back. He isn't killing it but he requires attention. Freeing up other guys to make plays. Cody has played a little better. Arthur jones and Kruger have been playing well the last 2-3 weeks. The dline Was the reason we were struggling and now it is the reason the d is playing better. Their improvement makes our lbs and DBS look better as well. Lbs are free to run to the ball. The pass rush is helps DBS in coverage.

Ellerbe is the best lb on the squad. He has been for the last couple years. The guy is a playmaker. McClain should be the guy sitting when ray comes back
I have to agree, the d line was really bad and we had no pass rush. Now that it's improved, I think Ray's play will improve with it, I too think Ellerbe is better than McClain. When Ray comes back it wouldn bother be to see him come off the field on 3rd and long.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 7:16 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Skipjacks wrote:
SpankyJohnson wrote: Here's everybody favorite player and inspitational leader and yada yada yada, but the bottom line is that this team is 7-1 without Ray the last two years. His production and the importance of his position is negligible at this point. I know the media spins this into something it's not, but let's face it, dude ain't that important anymore.. We need to think about getting that money due next year and allocating it into someone else.
Your entire premise is invalid because you used the term 'bottom line' in its presentation, thus proving just how ingrained Ray Lewis is to this community. excited
Ray Lewis is an icon in Baltimore and will be a first Ballot HOF inductee..

However, today, this defense plays better without him.  The bottom line is wins. That validates everything
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Posted: 11/27/2012 7:21 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



theravenkidd wrote:
Rza52 wrote: Some of what you say is true, but going there right now is bad mojo.
yup, right there with Woodley's Piss towel mojo voodoo curse on RR
Kind of funny.  Ray Rice went on to have a historic run to help his team win an unwinnable game while Woodley got hurt and might not play against us next week.  Talk about the Reverse Karma.  He should have never brought up the Karma angle.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 8:51 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


ravmaniac wrote:
Skipjacks wrote:
SpankyJohnson wrote: Here's everybody favorite player and inspitational leader and yada yada yada, but the bottom line is that this team is 7-1 without Ray the last two years. His production and the importance of his position is negligible at this point. I know the media spins this into something it's not, but let's face it, dude ain't that important anymore.. We need to think about getting that money due next year and allocating it into someone else.
Your entire premise is invalid because you used the term 'bottom line' in its presentation, thus proving just how ingrained Ray Lewis is to this community. excited
Ray Lewis is an icon in Baltimore and will be a first Ballot HOF inductee..

However, today, this defense plays better without him.  The bottom line is wins. That validates everything
I think you missed the entire point of my post.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 9:41 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



RAVENSDEFENSE52 wrote: Spoiled brat Raven fans.

When they get what they want, they want to trash the player that has been there since day 1.
Exactly.  No respect.  He has been here since the start and is a big reason we stayed competitive and maintained great defense when we could have been a bottom dweller.  He has made other players and coaches rich with contracts and opportunities and propped Baltimore up.  He has made us rich with a great football team to follow and love and his legacy transcends this season or football.

Have some respect you jack-wagons.  He has earned the right to go back out there and prove your armchair opinions right or wrong.  Above anyone else, he has earned it.  STFU.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 9:42 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Rza52 wrote:
RAVENSDEFENSE52 wrote: Spoiled brat Raven fans.

When they get what they want, they want to trash the player that has been there since day 1.
Exactly.  No respect.  He has been here since the start and is a big reason we stayed competitive and maintained great defense when we could have been a bottom dweller.  He has made other players and coaches rich with contracts and opportunities and propped Baltimore up.  He has made us rich with a great football team to follow and love and his legacy transcends this season or football.

Have some respect you jack-wagons.  He has earned the right to go back out there and prove your armchair opinions right or wrong.  Above anyone else, he has earned it.  STFU.
+1
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Posted: 11/27/2012 9:45 AM

RE: Ray Lewis Myth 


I think someone needs to bring up the numbers regarding yards allowed, since it's the only one that matters regarding Ray. The improvement can't be that much. Also bring out the points allowed stats with Ray in and Ray out. They should both hold that we are a top five defense.

At the end of the day, I know it's not about this it's about looking sleek and pretty. Those who want Ray gone want him out of here because he doesn't look as fast as the guys 10 years younger than him. They discriminate based on age and appearance, not because of performance because at the end of the day Ray gets it done, Ray make critical game winning play, but that's not good enough for you because it's not pretty.

If Ray comes back and is really healed and healthy, I have 100% confidence in his play.
"In Hoc Signo Vinces"
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Posted: 11/27/2012 9:45 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



joeshmoe wrote: Very uneducated opinion. First of all the dline play has improved since Suggs came back. He isn't killing it but he requires attention. Freeing up other guys to make plays. Cody has played a little better. Arthur jones and Kruger have been playing well the last 2-3 weeks. The dline Was the reason we were struggling and now it is the reason the d is playing better. Their improvement makes our lbs and DBS look better as well. Lbs are free to run to the ball. The pass rush is helps DBS in coverage.

Ellerbe is the best lb on the squad. He has been for the last couple years. The guy is a playmaker. McClain should be the guy sitting when ray comes back
Only in the nickel package.  The Ravens have ran a 2-5 Defense this season in two games at least.  They ran it against SD at times and they've ran it against Oakland.  When they go 2-5 the lineup consists of:

...................Ellerbe....McClain.....McClella n
.............Suggs......Ngata.....Kemo........Krug er/Upshaw

This past game when Ellerbe got hurt Bynes came in.  They used this primarily against Pro set Offense, but also lined up in it against Shotgun on the first play of the game against the Chargers.  Thus far teams seem to have difficulty blocking it because of the alignment.  If I recount correctly, the longest run given up when aligned in this defense is 4 yards.  It might have been 6.  I'll have to go back and look.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 9:53 AM

RE: Ray Lewis Myth 



bmoreman wrote: I think someone needs to bring up the numbers regarding yards allowed, since it's the only one that matters regarding Ray. The improvement can't be that much. Also bring out the points allowed stats with Ray in and Ray out. They should both hold that we are a top five defense.

At the end of the day, I know it's not about this it's about looking sleek and pretty. Those who want Ray gone want him out of here because he doesn't look as fast as the guys 10 years younger than him. They discriminate based on age and appearance, not because of performance because at the end of the day Ray gets it done, Ray make critical game winning play, but that's not good enough for you because it's not pretty.

If Ray comes back and is really healed and healthy, I have 100% confidence in his play.
With Lewis this season, the Ravens went 5-1 and the defense allowed 19.6 points per game and 396.6 yards per game. Without Lewis this season, the defense has given up 20.2 points per game and 344.6 total yards.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Late -For-Work-1127-Conflicting-Opinions-On-Ray-Lewis-N earing-Return/26a2c7dc-e6d4-42c0-88cf-9054d85f87ce

Last edited 11/27/2012 9:54 AM by RAVENSDEFENSE52

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Posted: 11/27/2012 10:12 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


I love what Ray has done here in/for Baltimore. But I feel we must face it; he isn't gonna be around forever.  He has lost more than just a step.  He is very slow, comparatively.  While his instincts are better than anyone in the league; he isn't able to accomplish what his mind wants him to, especially in pass coverage. It's clear Harbaugh is doing exactly what 90% of us would do. He has been allowing Ray to decide when he's done. If Ray isn't delusional, then he will know soon that it is time........I think.  It would be wonderful to win the Lombardi this season, not just for the team and  it's fans.  It would also give Ray the perfect opportunity to "go out on top".

Also, if Ellerbe were playing better, it would be easier to sit Ray. But frankly, although he seems much faster than Ray, he doesn't always finish the play. IMO, Ray's injury has been a blessing in disguise. It is allowing Ellerbe to get needed seasoning on field, while resting Ray for the playoff run.

OT....I have great confidence we will win the Super Bowl this season.  I believe you need some luck now and again to go with the talent.  That 4th and 29 was a display of exactly the kind of luck that is needed.
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  • Jam31
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Posted: 11/27/2012 12:20 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


So its not really all about Ray, its really all about the reigning Defensive Player of the Year.  Why in the hell would anyone not want Ray back?  

Stat of the day:

 Baltimore sacked Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers six times, which is the defense’s magic number. The Ravens have won the past 13 games in which they’ve sacked the quarterback at least six times. 

Four of the sacks on Rivers came when the Ravens sent four or fewer pass-rushers. Blitzing less has been a trend since Terrell Suggs returned from an Achilles injury, according to ESPN Stats & Information. 

In Baltimore’s first six games, all without Suggs, the Ravens sent four or fewer pass-rushers 60.4 percent of the time and allowed quarterbacks to average 8.7 yards per pass attempt. In the past five games, all with Suggs, the Ravens haven’t blitzed on 79.8 percent of pass plays and have limited quarterbacks to 6.0 yards per attempt. 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth
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Posted: 11/27/2012 12:33 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Rza52 wrote:
Have some respect you jack-wagons.  He has earned the right to go back out there and prove your armchair opinions right or wrong.  Above anyone else, he has earned it.  STFU.
 What about my right to see a defense use players that can acually keep up with younger faster players and make a play..

He's earned our respect but not a permanent spot on the field..

And the proof of my opinion is in his play.. Has been for 2 years..  he's old, slow, and no longer the object of attention of the OC, other than to put a guard on him.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 12:51 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



ravmaniac wrote:
Rza52 wrote:
Have some respect you jack-wagons.  He has earned the right to go back out there and prove your armchair opinions right or wrong.  Above anyone else, he has earned it.  STFU.
 What about my right to see a defense use players that can acually keep up with younger faster players and make a play..

He's earned our respect but not a permanent spot on the field..

And the proof of my opinion is in his play.. Has been for 2 years..  he's old, slow, and no longer the object of attention of the OC, other than to put a guard on him.
This is an opinion and values thing.  I think he has earned the right to come back and finish out this year.  You don't.  We disagree.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 1:08 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Rza52 wrote:
This is an opinion and values thing.  I think he has earned the right to come back and finish out this year.  You don't.  We disagree.

if he wants to come back and is cleared by the Doc, I'm fine with that. But I don't think he should be on the field for every down..
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Posted: 11/27/2012 1:20 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Jam31 wrote: So its not really all about Ray, its really all about the reigning Defensive Player of the Year.  Why in the hell would anyone not want Ray back?  

agreed, a million percent.  Since the day Suggs stepped back on this field, the D has gotten progressively better.  We are now setting the edge in the run game and rushing the passer.  I think this has A LOT to do with Suggs, but also becuase it allows Upshaw/Kruger to rotate, which suits each of them better at this point in their career. 
DeAngelo Tyson has also brought someting new and useful to the table since his insertion into the lineup.  I think it's jsut convenient that Ray hasn't been on the field. 

I DO however thinkthat someone needs to sit Ray down and talk to him about 3rd downs.  Ellerbe and Ayanbadejo BOTH have more business being on the field in obvious passing downs.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 1:27 PM

RE: Ray Lewis Myth 


I love the hate flowing out about Ray from the fans and media. I imagine it serves to stoke the fire inside 52. I imagine that 52 knows that this will be his last run at the crown and his last chance to cement himself as THE greatest defender of all time. I imagine that all manor of sacrifice and effort will be laid out on the table.

You all seem to think Ray will wilt and die. That's not the Ray Lewis I know. The Ray Lewis I have watched for 16 years will not only step up at the exact moment required, but will likely dominate all opposition along his path to glory.

Suckers doubt him. 52 is LEGEND.



Cool Story Bro.
You should tell it at practice.

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Posted: 11/27/2012 1:37 PM

RE: Ray Lewis Myth 



Mobtown wrote: I love the hate flowing out about Ray from the fans
No hate, just reality....
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Posted: 11/27/2012 2:47 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



jonboy79 wrote:
Jam31 wrote: So its not really all about Ray, its really all about the reigning Defensive Player of the Year.  Why in the hell would anyone not want Ray back?  

agreed, a million percent.  Since the day Suggs stepped back on this field, the D has gotten progressively better.  We are now setting the edge in the run game and rushing the passer.  I think this has A LOT to do with Suggs, but also becuase it allows Upshaw/Kruger to rotate, which suits each of them better at this point in their career. 
DeAngelo Tyson has also brought someting new and useful to the table since his insertion into the lineup.  I think it's jsut convenient that Ray hasn't been on the field. 

I DO however thinkthat someone needs to sit Ray down and talk to him about 3rd downs.  Ellerbe and Ayanbadejo BOTH have more business being on the field in obvious passing downs.
Thank you. It's all been about sizzle. Sizzle allows Kruger to be blocked one on one and free up everyone to get to the passer. If I were the front office I would continue to draft d linemen and edge rushers. All those other positions are replaceable. Ellerbee actually gets to the QB on blitzes!
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Posted: 11/27/2012 2:50 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



joeshmoe wrote: Very uneducated opinion. First of all the dline play has improved since Suggs came back. He isn't killing it but he requires attention. Freeing up other guys to make plays. Cody has played a little better. Arthur jones and Kruger have been playing well the last 2-3 weeks. The dline Was the reason we were struggling and now it is the reason the d is playing better. Their improvement makes our lbs and DBS look better as well. Lbs are free to run to the ball. The pass rush is helps DBS in coverage.

Ellerbe is the best lb on the squad. He has been for the last couple years. The guy is a playmaker. McClain should be the guy sitting when ray comes back
Smartest post on this thread!  Followed closely by the post about Suggs' impact.

What the detractors seem to miss about Ray, is that even though nobody would deny he's lost a step, I think his football genius has grown to compensate for much of that.  His stats bear that out.  Those stats are better than that of an average player.

I will grant the exception of obvious pass plays.  If someone could convince Ray that it's in the best interest of the team for him to sit on 3rd downs, I would not only look forward to his return improving our defense this year, but NEXT if his body will allow.  I didn't think I would be saying that at the beginning of the season.

Then there's the issue of lack of respect given to a legend, some posters cross a line with that.  If you can't respect the best of all time, then clearly you can't muster respect for any player, the second you feel they've outlived their usefulness to you personally... shows lack of character.
 
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Posted: 11/27/2012 3:02 PM

RE: Ray Lewis Myth 


To be honest, I would much rather have Ray & Ellerbee on the field than Ray & Jameel. We did the right thing by retaining Jameel as we had no one to fill that role should Ray get hurt which was the right choice, but i hope we give Josh Bynes and Nigel Carr legit shot at PT next year
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  • PetePa
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Posted: 11/27/2012 3:17 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



RAVEN4LIFE wrote: Ray is past his prime but in no way is he a myth. He is arguably the greatest to play the Linebacker position.  You are no fan of the Baltimore Ravens.
You're kidding right? In Baltimore that may be true but the greatest LB Defensive player of all time in the remaining 49 States will always be LT.......................no one ever changed offensive alignments (TE chip under Joe Gibbs) to cope with one player until LT arrived. Ray the best leader I have seen to date, the most gifted defender LT hands down.
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:04 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



PetePa wrote:
RAVEN4LIFE wrote: Ray is past his prime but in no way is he a myth. He is arguably the greatest to play the Linebacker position.  You are no fan of the Baltimore Ravens.
You're kidding right? In Baltimore that may be true but the greatest LB Defensive player of all time in the remaining 49 States will always be coked up LT.......................no one ever changed offensive alignments (TE chip under Joe Gibbs) to cope with one player until  coked up LT arrived. Ray the best leader I have seen to date, the most gifted defender coked up

LT hands down.

 

Fixed it for ya stealerpa..  How much of that coke LT was stuffing up his nose add to his play?

Really stealerpa, still acting like a giants fans.. Stick to the smack board..  and tell the your buddy the other stealer fan  he owes me money..

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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:49 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Rza52 wrote:
RAVENSDEFENSE52 wrote: Spoiled brat Raven fans.

When they get what they want, they want to trash the player that has been there since day 1.
Exactly.  No respect.  He has been here since the start and is a big reason we stayed competitive and maintained great defense when we could have been a bottom dweller.  He has made other players and coaches rich with contracts and opportunities and propped Baltimore up.  He has made us rich with a great football team to follow and love and his legacy transcends this season or football.

Have some respect you jack-wagons.  He has earned the right to go back out there and prove your armchair opinions right or wrong.  Above anyone else, he has earned it.  STFU.


This makes no sense. I'm loyal and thankful to Ray, but we are a more sound defense without Ray. Want to give Ray respect, let him coach up the youth from the sideline. This team has to put the best guys out there for the team to win. Motivational speeches and pep rally's prior to the game don't equate to wins and loses.
Momma says, "Foosball is the Devil!

Last edited 11/28/2012 9:51 AM by Thedailydose

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Posted: 11/29/2012 2:32 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


Following the faulty logic on this thread we shouldn't let Ladarius come back when he is healthy. The defense has been much better since he was injured. Lol
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Posted: 11/29/2012 3:24 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Thedailydose wrote:
Rza52 wrote:
RAVENSDEFENSE52 wrote: Spoiled brat Raven fans.

When they get what they want, they want to trash the player that has been there since day 1.
Exactly.  No respect.  He has been here since the start and is a big reason we stayed competitive and maintained great defense when we could have been a bottom dweller.  He has made other players and coaches rich with contracts and opportunities and propped Baltimore up.  He has made us rich with a great football team to follow and love and his legacy transcends this season or football.

Have some respect you jack-wagons.  He has earned the right to go back out there and prove your armchair opinions right or wrong.  Above anyone else, he has earned it.  STFU.


This makes no sense. I'm loyal and thankful to Ray, but we are a more sound defense without Ray. Want to give Ray respect, let him coach up the youth from the sideline. This team has to put the best guys out there for the team to win. Motivational speeches and pep rally's prior to the game don't equate to wins and loses.
My 2 cents - we are a much better D WITH Ray AND Suggs and a healthier Ngata...add Lardarius back into the equation and I would argue we never leave the top 5. The first quarter of the season was about gelling and trying to adjust to life without the DPOY and a new D-Cord calling plays.
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Posted: 11/29/2012 9:56 AM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 



Rygar64 wrote:
My 2 cents - we are a much better D WITH Ray AND Suggs and a healthier Ngata...add Lardarius back into the equation and I would argue we never leave the top 5. The first quarter of the season was about gelling and trying to adjust to life without the DPOY and a new D-Cord calling plays.

And now with Suggs back, Ngata taking plays off and Ray on the sidelines, the D is playing much better..

What some people need to adjust to is this defense plays better without a big ego on the field who, because of his age, is fast becoming a liabilty..
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Posted: 11/29/2012 1:16 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


After watching Ray Lewis play for the entirety of the Ravens History thus far, there is nothing I want to see more than Ray Lewis back on the field even if it comes with a bit of a loss.   There are no other players I would say that about but Ray Lewis is the Baltimore Ravens.  It will be so different when he no longer plays.  He has earned the right to be out there as far as I am concerned even if it comes with a drop off.      

If you want a liability, look at #20.                          

Last edited 11/29/2012 1:16 PM by GalenSevinne

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Posted: 11/29/2012 1:55 PM

Re: Ray Lewis Myth 


I agree about reed. He is a big liability. The man can not even tackle anymore. He is a hof player but the man is done IMO.
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