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Joe Flacco - Top 5 Money or Avg Money Deal?

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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:15 AM

Joe Flacco - Top 5 Money or Avg Money Deal? 


Joe has said he believes he's a top 5 QB, his agent feels he could be one of the best QB's in the game....eek

I know I will get crapped on, but at this point in the season coming off that huge AFC Championship loss in NE last year, I would ONLY offer Joe a two year deal max. Do not break the bank on him. I'd offer him a hefty 2 year extension, with a possible third year option. There is times Joe is fantastic, but all too often he is just OK. IMO, he's not worth a huge multi-year deal.

So many fans would say, look at his record. But you can't just count wins and losses. You have to look at his overall performance. Of course many of Joe's wins were helped by our defense and ST in years past.

I'm just not sure Joe can take a team on his shoulders and win consistently. Yes he has won games in the past with his arm, but no where near top QB caliber consistent play. I don't think he's a top 5 QB. I don't think he is better or more elite than any of these...

E. Manning
B. Roethlisberger
M. Schaub
P. Manning
A. Rodgers
T. Brady
P. Rivers
M. Ryan
D. Brees

I could argue maybe R. Wilson, Andrew Luck and RG3 have more of an upside than Joe.



I know, here it comes... 242735.gif
Momma says, "Foosball is the Devil!

Last edited 11/19/2012 1:15 PM by Thedailydose

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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:18 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


Foolish comment, no franchise QB will sign a two year deal. He's not a 35 year journey man QB
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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:20 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


i dont know what to say or think anymore...this team has me at a loss for words...they win, joe is apart of it, he does what is needed...pay him a reasonable contract.

"Got a cover of Sports Illustrated..it says the Titans are the best team in football...maybe they are...but not today" Brian Billick

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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:21 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



21XXXV wrote: Foolish comment, no franchise QB will sign a two year deal. He's not a 35 year journey man QB
Maybe they should... maybe you are the fool? Ask Philly how the Vick experiment of 100 million is going for them. 

I don't want to see the Ravens get suckered into a long term deal similar to that with Flacco. Maybe we should start a new trend. Similar to what Buffalo did with Fitz.
Momma says, "Foosball is the Devil!

Last edited 11/19/2012 9:26 AM by Thedailydose

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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:36 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



Thedailydose wrote: Joe has said he believes he's a top 5 QB, his agent feels he could be one of the best QB's in the game....eek

I know I will get crapped on, but at this point in the season coming off that huge AFC Championship loss in NE last year, I would ONLY offer Joe a two year deal max. Do not break the bank on him. I'd offer him a hefty 2 year extension, with a possible third year option. There is times Joe is fantastic, but all too often he is just OK. IMO, he's not worth a huge multi-year deal.

So many fans would say, look at his record. But you can't just count wins and losses. You have to look at his overall performance. Of course many of Joe's wins were helped by our defense and ST in years past.

I'm just not sure Joe can take a team on his shoulders and win consistently. Yes he has won games in the past with his arm, but no where near top QB caliber consistent play. I don't think he's a top 5 QB. I don't think he is better or more elite than any of these...

E. Manning
B. Roethlisberger
M. Schaub
P. Manning
A. Rodgers
T. Brady
P. Rivers
M. Ryan
D. Brees

I could argue maybe R. Wilson, Andrew Luck and RG3 have more of an upside than Joe.



I know, here it comes... 242735.gif
You sound like Mike Preston this morning...eck15.gif

Lets try this. Invest in a real Offensive coordinator and pay Flacco long term. We've seen what he can do. He's worth the money when he's allow to show case his talent.


BTW Matt Ryan threw 5 picks yesterday , 3 in the first quarter.
And yeah, Philip Rivers is tearing it up eek1 
Eli hasn't thrown a TD pass in 3 games. In fact he's only thrown 2 in the last 5 but has 6 picks... Is he elite, or the benifactor of some very good luck?
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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:43 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


1) Flacco ain't taking a 2 year deal.  He will take Top 5 money or play under the Tag.  Anyone suggesting anything different is retarded

2) They played the game last night IDENTICALLY to how they played the Texans in the playoffs.  THey knew they have an overmatched backup QB they were facing, and just turtled for the win.  UGLY, but it worked again.  No need to panic


3) If anyone else hasn't noticed, I want to note that the refs aren't calling Illegal Contact like they used to.  I think after the Ref lockout, they've been given some directive to more or less eat the flag there unless its egregious.  And I think that is hurting offenses in some games with certain crews.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:54 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


Ray Rice looked like garbage AGAIN last night. I wish we never gave him top 5 money considering running backs grow on trees. QB's not so much.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:54 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


I'm not going to argue.. I just feel he is not worth a huge deal. Maybe I'm "retarded" (Classy that you still use that word) but I feel the Ravens should be very prudent, that's all. If you think Flacco is the best thing since sliced bread, well maybe I am the "R" word...noidea
Momma says, "Foosball is the Devil!
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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:57 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


Last night was the first game I got to see in its entirety this season and I've got to say I don't see Joe being worth top 5 money. I know it's against the Steelers, one of the better defense in the league, but there's no reason why he cannot stay consistent. However, my bigger concern is that Cameron is still not mixing up the run and the passing and we had to rely on special teams to put points on the board as if it were 2000. If Cameron isn't getting the offense going then he could be inadvertantly inflating Flacco's salary demand to the point that Flacco will get that top 5 money because there's no one else out there that's better at the moment or after this season.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:58 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



ClericBlackDave wrote: 1) Flacco ain't taking a 2 year deal.  He will take Top 5 money or play under the Tag.  Anyone suggesting anything different is retarded

2) They played the game last night IDENTICALLY to how they played the Texans in the playoffs.  THey knew they have an overmatched backup QB they were facing, and just turtled for the win.  UGLY, but it worked again.  No need to panic


3) If anyone else hasn't noticed, I want to note that the refs aren't calling Illegal Contact like they used to.  I think after the Ref lockout, they've been given some directive to more or less eat the flag there unless its egregious.  And I think that is hurting offenses in some games with certain crews.
1) You're actually right about something, which puts the Ravens in a precarious spot. Flacco paid under the franchise tag would be the biggest rip off in the NFL, but what choice do we have?

2) If by "turtled" you mean got bad play out of both our QB and running game, then you are correct. We didn't intend to play that way in either game, it's just that both of those very good defenses bettered our not very good offense.

3) You're just wrong about the illegal contact. Not last night, but in almost every other game I watch it feels like there is a flag on 2/3 of incomplete passes.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:59 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



TheRealPurpleguy wrote: Ray Rice looked like garbage AGAIN last night. I wish we never gave him top 5 money considering running backs grow on trees. QB's not so much.
I also think this a product of teams, really trying to keep him contained, and Birk getting beat constantly....

"Got a cover of Sports Illustrated..it says the Titans are the best team in football...maybe they are...but not today" Brian Billick

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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:59 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



TheRealPurpleguy wrote: Ray Rice looked like garbage AGAIN last night. I wish we never gave him top 5 money considering running backs grow on trees. QB's not so much.
Have you watched football? RB's don't garner the money or the length of a deal a QB does. This is pointless. Can't ask a reasonable question....smh
Momma says, "Foosball is the Devil!
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:19 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



Thedailydose wrote:
TheRealPurpleguy wrote: Ray Rice looked like garbage AGAIN last night. I wish we never gave him top 5 money considering running backs grow on trees. QB's not so much.
Have you watched football? RB's don't garner the money or the length of a deal a QB does. This is pointless. Can't ask a reasonable question....smh
Well you answered your own question about Joe taking a two year deal.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:25 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


Joe/his agent would never take a 2 year deal.

There are plenty of teams out there that would jump all over Flacco IMO

Dallas, Philly, KC, Jacksonville, Arizona at the very least
...and don't call me Shirley
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:27 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


As has been said in other responses, Flacco and his representation will not accept a 2-year contract, so that is a moot point.

After the season, Cam Cameron should be let go, and Baltimore should do a legitimate, thorough search for an O-Coordinator, much like what was done to find Harbaugh in the first place (minus Jason Garrett using us for leverage).

Look at Tampa Bay. They were one of the worst offenses in the league last season, with a young QB who was talented, but appeared to be regressing. They brought in Mike Sullivan from the Giants, who had been their WRs coach for four years, then the QB coach with Manning for two. A solid, balanced system that has success against most any scheme. After some growing pains while learning the terminology, etc that offense has grown by leaps and bounds.

Get someone in here who matches his scheme to the available personnel, and looks at deficiencies on the opposing defense to exploit each week to tailor a gameplan, and we will see Flacco (and the offense in general) grow by leaps and bounds.

That's what SHOULD have happened the last two offseason. Bisciotti is going to have to step in.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:29 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


If Arizona had Flacco they are a playoff team in that division.  The talent is all there, EXCEPT at QB.


Arizona is in an almost identical situation to us in the Boller years, except they have better talent at WR.  Just need a guy to sling it.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:31 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


People consistently misunderstand what "Top 5 money" actually is. If you took all 32 starting QBs and signed them THIS year, then no Joe Flacco doesn't deserve and wouldn't get top 5 money. Since that's not how it works, Joe deserves and will get top 5 money. In another year or two that contract won't be looked at as top 5 any more.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:35 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


He's amazing at home and average away, so maybe :
*round out the top 5 qb deals this year for money per year and divide it in half = 8 games at home where he shows elite type talent

*take the contracts for the 6th to 20th qbs and divide that by 8 = 8 average road games where he shows average talent

*give him a good signing bonus for his win total and not dumping the bed in the playoffs the last two years

That's how he should be paid.
 
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:38 AM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


I think its amazing that this conversation is had after a game in which

1) We stuck to the run to the tune of 40 rush yards over 20 attempts for a pitiful 2 YPC average (abysmal)

2) Did so because we were facing an overmatched QB and didn't want to assist in the improbable upset by turning the ball over

3) We won.


Flacco did what we was basically asked to do by the gameplan.  My only critique is actually throwing high on the throws to Torrey Smith, but the coverage was there and he was likely being HYPER conservative to avoid the turnover.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:52 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



ClericBlackDave wrote: If Arizona had Flacco they are a playoff team in that division.  The talent is all there, EXCEPT at QB.


Arizona is in an almost identical situation to us in the Boller years, except they have better talent at WR.  Just need a guy to sling it.

No. They have NO OL whatsoever. I mean way far worse than what we have. Flacco would not have a chance. He's not exactly one known for his timing and pocket presence even at his best.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:53 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


I don't disagree with what you're saying CBD, but playing devil's advocate, it begs the question WHY is that all thqt Flacco was being asked to do?

The offense scored 3 points on the night (excluding the FG we got off the Reed fumble return).

Do you think that was by design?

I'm ecstatic we won, I never take a road win in the NFL lightly, but the offense needs to be better across the board...in scheme and execution, or Baltimore is going to be the #2 seed, get to the AFC Championship game again, and get thoroughly dominated in Houston (again).

Tomlin said it best..."excuses are for the incompetent"...we need to be better. There is blame to go around, plenty for all, but if we cannot get even an average level of offensive output away from The Vault, we are destined to be on the outside looking in come Super Bowl time.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:53 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



RavenzNTerps wrote:
ClericBlackDave wrote: If Arizona had Flacco they are a playoff team in that division.  The talent is all there, EXCEPT at QB.


Arizona is in an almost identical situation to us in the Boller years, except they have better talent at WR.  Just need a guy to sling it.

No. They have NO OL whatsoever. I mean way far worse than what we have. Flacco would not have a chance. He's not exactly one known for his timing and pocket presence even at his best.
They don't need much.  They need a guy who, when the protection is there, could throw a ball within Larry Fitzgeralds HUGE catch radius.  I'm pretty sure Flacco can manage that, and Arizone would pay him top 5 money to do so .
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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:58 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



naca72 wrote: I don't disagree with what you're saying CBD, but playing devil's advocate, it begs the question WHY is that all thqt Flacco was being asked to do?

The offense scored 3 points on the night (excluding the FG we got off the Reed fumble return).

Do you think that was by design?

I'm ecstatic we won, I never take a road win in the NFL lightly, but the offense needs to be better across the board...in scheme and execution, or Baltimore is going to be the #2 seed, get to the AFC Championship game again, and get thoroughly dominated in Houston (again).

Tomlin said it best..."excuses are for the incompetent"...we need to be better. There is blame to go around, plenty for all, but if we cannot get even an average level of offensive output away from The Vault, we are destined to be on the outside looking in come Super Bowl time.
Flacco gets confused by the 4 man rush. Pitt's D confuses a lot of QBs so it's no big thang, but when they went to that 0 down look he had NO clue. Really should have called time out. That's the play where he was surprised by the snap because he was trying to figure out WTF was going on then tossed a panicked incompletion. I don't mind him being confused at that look; it's a new look. But that should have been a timeout.

Anyway, that's also why Philly and Houston were able to give him fits. They can get pressure without blitzing. Expect more ugly performances against NYG and Denver.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 11:31 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


2 yards per carry.   Given the ball 20 times.

The 20 carries was the gameplan (plus, Pierce got carries too).   The production was Rice's 40 yards.  The production and execution was the problem.


Credit Pittsburg's Defense, but you can't critique Cam for not sticking with the run more and, when he does, and when it sputters, blame him that the offense isn't highly productive.

No-one is saying Flacco is perfect, but he wasn't being put into a situation to win.  He was supposed to not-lose, which he did.  No turnovers.   It was Ray Rice's game to win, as I alluded to in another thread.  He did not win it.  It is what it is.


Food for thought - Bernard Pierce, 2 carries for 8 yards, 4 YPC - maybe he should have gotten the ball more (Shades of Ricky Williams in the AFCCG?)

how this offensive performance has fans calling for Flacco's head and giving Ray Rice another pass . . . WOW

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Posted: 11/19/2012 11:50 AM

RE: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



ClericBlackDave wrote:

2 yards per carry.   Given the ball 20 times.

The 20 carries was the gameplan (plus, Pierce got carries too).   The production was Rice's 40 yards.  The production and execution was the problem.


Credit Pittsburg's Defense, but you can't critique Cam for not sticking with the run more and, when he does, and when it sputters, blame him that the offense isn't highly productive.

No-one is saying Flacco is perfect, but he wasn't being put into a situation to win.  He was supposed to not-lose, which he did.  No turnovers.   It was Ray Rice's game to win, as I alluded to in another thread.  He did not win it.  It is what it is.


Food for thought - Bernard Pierce, 2 carries for 8 yards, 4 YPC - maybe he should have gotten the ball more (Shades of Ricky Williams in the AFCCG?)

how this offensive performance has fans calling for Flacco's head and giving Ray Rice another pass . . . WOW


Food for thought: your sample size is 2 carries.


Rice's first carry in the 2nd half was for 8 yards. That's double the prodcution!!!!

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Posted: 11/19/2012 12:15 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



ClericBlackDave wrote: I think its amazing that this conversation is had after a game in which

1) We stuck to the run to the tune of 40 rush yards over 20 attempts for a pitiful 2 YPC average (abysmal)

2) Did so because we were facing an overmatched QB and didn't want to assist in the improbable upset by turning the ball over

3) We won.


Flacco did what we was basically asked to do by the gameplan.  My only critique is actually throwing high on the throws to Torrey Smith, but the coverage was there and he was likely being HYPER conservative to avoid the turnover.
Again, its personnel, people hate the facts, but fact is, McKinnie was the reason we were so damn productive on the ground last year. Oher has become very reliable as a pass protector, i'll give him that. But we are weak against the run because Mc isnt out there mauling guys.

At some point, blame has to go to the coaches for not seeing the difference and making comparisons. Mckinnie and Leach made the difference last year. If their egos allow them to be so blind as to not put him in to improve our run offense, then someone needs to be held accountable. But our current scenario with this running game, shouldnt be a surprised to anyone. On top of the fact that Mckinnie isnt manning the left, is the fact we keep playing musical chairs with the LG spot.

Just put Oher there at LG, and McKinnie at LT and call it a day and i promise youll see a much improved running game. Mc and Oher on the same side will clear out any traffic on that side.
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~Jacoby on Joe~
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Posted: 11/19/2012 12:28 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



theravenkidd wrote: 
Again, its personnel, people hate the facts, but fact is, McKinnie was the reason we were so damn productive on the ground last year.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:01 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


Let me re-approach this... maybe not a two year deal, but an avg deal like Fitz got in Buffalo or slightly more $$ possibly. I just don't see Ozzie paying Joe top 5 money. I think the Ravens would be very foolish to give Joe a huge deal, front loaded with guarantees (which a top 5-10 contract would do). Front loading a 75 million dollar contract plus would be crazy. Look at what Philly has to do with that cap dump because of Vick. 

Another clarification, I'm not talking about only last night. Let's watch some of the film throughout the year. Flacco just doesn't look like a leader..he looks lethargic most of the time. Where is the fire we were told we would see when "it's his offense?"

We can make excuses and try to make Joe a top 5 QB. I just don't see it. Yes Rivers is having an off year, and Ryan threw a bunch of picks. But Ryan demonstrates weekly that he can find open receivers when needed, and can make plays. QB's in the top 5 can check out of plays without instruction, read defenses regardless of scheme. My intention is not to bash Flacco, it's simply to discuss the huge elephant in the room we have going forward with his contract.

Maybe it's just Cam? Maybe the creativity just isn't' there... noidea
Momma says, "Foosball is the Devil!

Last edited 11/19/2012 1:03 PM by Thedailydose

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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:06 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



naca72 wrote: After the season, Cam Cameron should be let go, and Baltimore should do a legitimate, thorough search for an O-Coordinator,
We already have Jim Caldwell on staff. I say go with him..
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:12 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



Thedailydose wrote: Look at what Philly has to do with that cap dump because of Vick. 
Actually, Vick's contract is structured such that they can dump him after this season with virtually no penalty.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:17 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


Interesting, 610 WIP was saying this morning that they will be paying for the Vick debacle for years to come.. Maybe they meant personnel wise.
Momma says, "Foosball is the Devil!
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:19 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



Thedailydose wrote:  Yes Rivers is having an off year, and Ryan threw a bunch of picks. But Ryan demonstrates weekly that he can find open receivers when needed, and can make plays.
Ryan has all world WRs in Jones and White and a HOF TE. But more important, his OC has  a clue on how to have an aggressive attack plan week after week.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:19 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or Avg money deal? 


He has the playoffs to prove himself but I just don't see it based on the way he plays on the road.  I'm sitting here saying to myself, the Jags scored 30 + on the Texans in Houston and we could barely get to 10 points???  We did not score a TD against the Steelers on the road.  We lost to a sub par team in Philly and Flacco had a chance to lead us down the field for the win and failed.  He struggled mightily against the Chiefs.  I just don't see how he gets top 5 money.  Again he still has the playoffs to prove himself but without a SB victory and stellar performances down the stretch I don't see him getting top 5 money.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:20 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


I have never in my life seen a fan base defend poor QB play so much. Everyone acts like it is a given that Flacco will become much better once Cameron is gone but almost no one acknowledges that maybe he's just not "elite" whatever the hell that word means anyway. What happens if he continues to perform like he has this year with a new OC? Honest question.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:26 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 


Watching last night was very painful, and my following opinion I have made in other threads to some degree.

1)  Our Offensive line sucks...Oher doesn't block through the entire play and is never going to be a reat LT should be RT, Birk gets bowled over and our left guard is in flux and is below average at best, KO should be LG and get a new LT. Part of what made Brady and Manning so great was there o-line. Flacco rarely has time to throw the ball, I think most of us can agree he gets hit a lot and it's amazing he is not gotten injured yet. They need to roll him out in coverage with such a poor line play.

2) I heard on the radio play calling is only bad when it doesn't work. Well Cam's play calling never works against good defenses. We wants to run a 5'8" RB up the middle against the best defense in the league. How about running the ball with four wide instead of telegraphing what your are going to do, try rub route, play action, slants over the middle (which I was begging for last night). They were stacking the box on us all the time,  think he had 40 yards on 20 rushes. Cam has gone the way of Mike Martz, we need young / fresh ideas. My vote Hue Jackson

3)  I feel like we need to pay Joe, maybe not top 5 money, but close and make it insentive based. Get rid of Cam and try some new ideas, get some better o line play and if Joe doesn't get better then you find someone that is. remember Cam got rid of Bree's because he wasn't any good, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. 

Thanks for listening
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:38 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



wlkntal wrote: Watching last night was very painful, and my following opinion I have made in other threads to some degree.

1)  Our Offensive line sucks...Oher doesn't block through the entire play and is never going to be a reat LT should be RT, Birk gets bowled over and our left guard is in flux and is below average at best, KO should be LG and get a new LT. Part of what made Brady and Manning so great was there o-line. Flacco rarely has time to throw the ball, I think most of us can agree he gets hit a lot and it's amazing he is not gotten injured yet. They need to roll him out in coverage with such a poor line play.

2) I heard on the radio play calling is only bad when it doesn't work. Well Cam's play calling never works against good defenses. We wants to run a 5'8" RB up the middle against the best defense in the league. How about running the ball with four wide instead of telegraphing what your are going to do, try rub route, play action, slants over the middle (which I was begging for last night). They were stacking the box on us all the time,  think he had 40 yards on 20 rushes. Cam has gone the way of Mike Martz, we need young / fresh ideas. My vote Hue Jackson

3)  I feel like we need to pay Joe, maybe not top 5 money, but close and make it insentive based. Get rid of Cam and try some new ideas, get some better o line play and if Joe doesn't get better then you find someone that is. remember Cam got rid of Bree's because he wasn't any good, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. 

Thanks for listening
sooooo much wrong in soooo much of this post, particularly in #3.

Cam got rid of Brees lol
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:42 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



edreedisgod20 wrote:
theravenkidd wrote: 
Again, its personnel, people hate the facts, but fact is, McKinnie was the reason we were so damn productive on the ground last year.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no.
uhhhhhh what other changes have their been???? The system, which is a zone blocking scheme, is still the same, the personnel as changed drastically. And if i remember correctly, we werent running with consistency when Oher was at LT before McKinnie came. We ran VERY well when Gaither was our LT. Same last year with Mckinnie, even with Grubbs down a few times.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:49 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



RavenzNTerps wrote: I have never in my life seen a fan base defend poor QB play so much. Everyone acts like it is a given that Flacco will become much better once Cameron is gone but almost no one acknowledges that maybe he's just not "elite" whatever the hell that word means anyway. What happens if he continues to perform like he has this year with a new OC? Honest question.
The question has to be, why is there a huge difference in performance from home & away, thats THE million dollar question. Is it because we've been playing bums at home???? Is it because the oline performs much differently at home vs away and that trickles down to our skill positions???

People can say Cam this, Cam that, but those same people wont acknowledge the fact that he has led this team to TWO AFCCG during his stint here, one of which shouldve been a SB appearance. And his first appearance during the AFCCG, he had very little pieces surrounding Flacco, although i still feel they had some pieces they didnt use effectively.


But this blame game on Cam is getting stale very quick. Players have to execute, and the oline is VERY suspect on the ground. Birk got abused by Hampton on many plays (no surprise their), Oher, while he has improved his pass protection is a liability as a run mauler like Mckinnie.


The inconsistencies on the road is just mind boggling, and while some of it can be pointed to gameplanning, alot of it is personnel used to counter what teams are trying to do to us.
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"Its like...Someone Created him on Madden."
~Jacoby on Joe~
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:50 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



RavenzNTerps wrote:
wlkntal wrote: Watching last night was very painful, and my following opinion I have made in other threads to some degree.

1)  Our Offensive line sucks...Oher doesn't block through the entire play and is never going to be a reat LT should be RT, Birk gets bowled over and our left guard is in flux and is below average at best, KO should be LG and get a new LT. Part of what made Brady and Manning so great was there o-line. Flacco rarely has time to throw the ball, I think most of us can agree he gets hit a lot and it's amazing he is not gotten injured yet. They need to roll him out in coverage with such a poor line play.

2) I heard on the radio play calling is only bad when it doesn't work. Well Cam's play calling never works against good defenses. We wants to run a 5'8" RB up the middle against the best defense in the league. How about running the ball with four wide instead of telegraphing what your are going to do, try rub route, play action, slants over the middle (which I was begging for last night). They were stacking the box on us all the time,  think he had 40 yards on 20 rushes. Cam has gone the way of Mike Martz, we need young / fresh ideas. My vote Hue Jackson

3)  I feel like we need to pay Joe, maybe not top 5 money, but close and make it insentive based. Get rid of Cam and try some new ideas, get some better o line play and if Joe doesn't get better then you find someone that is. remember Cam got rid of Bree's because he wasn't any good, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. 

Thanks for listening
sooooo much wrong in soooo much of this post, particularly in #3.

Cam got rid of Brees lol
Marty backed Cam a lot like Harb's, so they drafted Manning/ Rivers and sent Bree's packing. However you want to slice it. Bottom line is Cam's offense is antiquated....look it up
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Posted: 11/19/2012 1:52 PM

Re: Joe Flacco - Top 5 money or 2 Yr Deal? 



wlkntal wrote:
Marty backed Cam a lot like Harb's, so they drafted Manning/ Rivers and sent Bree's packing. However you want to slice it. Bottom line is Cam's offense is antiquated....look it up

lol it may be but that isn't the reason we struggle to even get first downs. flacco is an average QB who struggles to execute for large chunks of time. that wouldn't change if we were in a WCO or the AC we run now.
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