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Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs

Posted: 2/4/2014 1:08 PM

Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/cbo -botched-health-care-law-rollout-will-reduce-signu ps-by-1-million-people/2014/02/04/c78577d0-8dac-11 e3-98ab-fe5228217bd1_story.html

Man, in addition to increasing premiums across the board and taking away insurance policies from countless people, employers are starting to realize the costs that can be saved by firing employees are cutting hours to get under the full-time threshold.  While it's deeply saddening and devastating for me to read this, I applaud the employers for taking back control of their businesses and not giving into Obama's ridiculous demands.  Again, while I never celebrate human casualties, I hope that this is the wake up call that unites us in our goal of forever wiping out the ACA and puts the insane notion of universal health care to rest for good.

A few posters on here might laugh about this and claim that the collateral damage was worth it, but putting middle age people on the streets with no health plan and no job is no easy feat to overcome, they'll probably never find employment commensurate to their former employers again.




Edited to insert link - Greg

Last edited 2/4/2014 1:48 PM by Baltimore Greg

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Posted: 2/4/2014 1:49 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


Well, what do you expect from a right-wing rag like the Washington Post.  You might as well have used WND or Drudge.

Did I get that right?
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Posted: 2/4/2014 2:09 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


While it's deeply saddening and devastating for me to read this, I applaud the employers for taking back control of their businesses and not giving into Obama's ridiculous demands. 

Again, while I never celebrate human casualties,

No, You just "applaud" it. Personally, I think that some of these unpatriotic companies should be getting "called out" not "applauded" by bozo's.


I think these companies could probably use a little less profit and keep their employees paid and gainfully employed. You don't though. You "applaud" these people getting fired. It's despicable. Congratulations on that.





I hope that this is the wake up call that unites us in our goal of forever wiping out the ACA 


I hope you know that that is not going to happen. You do realize that inconvenient little fact? RIGHT?

NO matter how much you right wing blowhards "applaud" the firing of employees that just want to have healthcare.



A few posters on here might laugh about this and claim that the collateral damage was worth it



No, we are laughing that you saw this and "applauded" it and then ran here to tell us all about it.

Last edited 2/4/2014 2:09 PM by Hottbirdz

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Posted: 2/4/2014 2:13 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


No, You just "applaud" it. Personally, I think that some of these unpatriotic companies should be getting "called out" not "applauded" by bozo's.

I think these companies could probably use a little less profit and keep their employees paid and gainfully employed. You don't though. You "applaud" these people getting fired. It's despicable. Congratulations on that.

So why don't YOU start a business and run it like this?

I KNOW that companies that profit a lot will draw competitors into their market to take some of that profit and that causes more people to be hired, which drives up wages.  This is basic economics.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 2:14 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


I don't know buy I will take that CBO report as a whole.  Nice find T.M.

"The reduction in employment from the health care law “includes some people choosing not to work at all and other people choosing to work fewer hours than they would have in the absence of the law,” the CBO said."

To me that sounds like people quitting their jobs because they don't need to work for health insurance anymore which  A. starts to correct this notion that we work to get health benefits and B. those jobs aren't lost but opened up for the next person.

Great news here:

The CBO estimated that 84 percent of the U.S. population would have health insurance in 2014, rising to 89 percent within a few years. Medicaid, the program for the poor expanded under the law, should add 6 million more people this year

If you care about people being healthier and you not having to pay for their uncovered healthcare.

And how about this:

At the same time, the CBO reported that the federal budget deficit is rapidly shrinking and is projected to narrow to $514 billion this year, providing fresh evidence that the problem that has been Washington’s obsession for the past several years has become far less urgent.

Tax increases, spending cuts and faster economic growth have helped close the deficit, which topped $1 trillion for several years following the onset of the Great Recession.

Can we get an Obama!...Obama!...Obama!?  The guy has really come through, huh?

Oh know where is 12th??? We need a Ben Ghazi update or else this thread might become more positive than this forum can bear.






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Posted: 2/4/2014 2:16 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



Baltimore Greg wrote: No, You just "applaud" it. Personally, I think that some of these unpatriotic companies should be getting "called out" not "applauded" by bozo's.

I think these companies could probably use a little less profit and keep their employees paid and gainfully employed. You don't though. You "applaud" these people getting fired. It's despicable. Congratulations on that.

So why don't YOU start a business and run it like this?

I KNOW that companies that profit a lot will draw competitors into their market to take some of that profit and that causes more people to be hired, which drives up wages.  This is basic economics.
Greg, I'm sorry but liberal beliefs and even a basic level of understanding of economics are mutually exclusive terms.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 2:16 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


I don't blame the employers for one nanosecond.  In this competitive global economy labor is cheap, but the price of American labor keeps spiraling upwards.  My feelings over the ACA and it's consequences have been vindication, not excitement.  I'll admit that I love being right, but not moreso than I love to see Americans gainfully employed, productive and happy.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 2:18 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


To me that sounds like people quitting their jobs because they don't need to work for health insurance anymore which  A. starts to correct this notion that we work to get health benefits and B. those jobs aren't lost but opened up for the next person.

Nothing like a government program encouraging people to not work and take care of their own responsibilities. thumbup.gif

This little slice of your writing is quite eye-opening.

If you care about people being healthier and you not having to pay for their uncovered healthcare.

Who do you think is paying for their covered healthcare?
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Posted: 2/4/2014 2:35 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



GalenSevinne wrote: I don't know buy I will take that CBO report as a whole.  Nice find T.M.

"The reduction in employment from the health care law “includes some people choosing not to work at all and other people choosing to work fewer hours than they would have in the absence of the law,” the CBO said."

To me that sounds like people quitting their jobs because they don't need to work for health insurance anymore which  A. starts to correct this notion that we work to get health benefits and B. those jobs aren't lost but opened up for the next person.

Great news here:

The CBO estimated that 84 percent of the U.S. population would have health insurance in 2014, rising to 89 percent within a few years. Medicaid, the program for the poor expanded under the law, should add 6 million more people this year

If you care about people being healthier and you not having to pay for their uncovered healthcare.

And how about this:

At the same time, the CBO reported that the federal budget deficit is rapidly shrinking and is projected to narrow to $514 billion this year, providing fresh evidence that the problem that has been Washington’s obsession for the past several years has become far less urgent.

Tax increases, spending cuts and faster economic growth have helped close the deficit, which topped $1 trillion for several years following the onset of the Great Recession.

Can we get an Obama!...Obama!...Obama!?  The guy has really come through, huh?

Oh know where is 12th??? We need a Ben Ghazi update or else this thread might become more positive than this forum can bear.






More like regression to the mean.  It took Obama a lot of skill to extend the greatest business downturn in our country since the Great Depression for as long as he did, but even somebody as inept as Obama can't beat fate and statistical regression to the mean. Most economies snap back into place a year or two, this slow recovery is embarrassing.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 2:36 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



Baltimore Greg wrote: To me that sounds like people quitting their jobs because they don't need to work for health insurance anymore which  A. starts to correct this notion that we work to get health benefits and B. those jobs aren't lost but opened up for the next person.

Nothing like a government program encouraging people to not work and take care of their own responsibilities. thumbup.gif

This little slice of your writing is quite eye-opening.

If you care about people being healthier and you not having to pay for their uncovered healthcare.

Who do you think is paying for their covered healthcare?
The same middle class that was paying for it before, only now we are paying TRIPLE for it.  
Before, the Hospitals simply passed the costs along to paying customers by billing dramatically higher costs to insured "customers" then need be, so that they could write- off those that don't pay.  This is unchanged,  
Secondarily, the middle class will be taxed to make up for the subsidies.  
Tertiarily, Our insurance costs have now risen dramatically to make up for the  adverse selection incurred by the new law's provisions.

Last edited 2/4/2014 3:19 PM by jonboy79

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Posted: 2/4/2014 3:12 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



jonboy79 wrote:
Baltimore Greg wrote: To me that sounds like people quitting their jobs because they don't need to work for health insurance anymore which  A. starts to correct this notion that we work to get health benefits and B. those jobs aren't lost but opened up for the next person.

Nothing like a government program encouraging people to not work and take care of their own responsibilities. thumbup.gif

This little slice of your writing is quite eye-opening.

If you care about people being healthier and you not having to pay for their uncovered healthcare.

Who do you think is paying for their covered healthcare?
The same middle class that was paying for it before, only now we are paying TRIPLE for it.  
Before, the Hospitals simply passed the costs along to paying customers by billing dramatically higher costs to insured "customers" then need be, so that they could right off those that don't pay.  This is unchanged,  
Secondarily, the middle class will be taxed to make up for the subsidies.  
Tertiarily, Our insurance costs have now risen dramatically to make up for the  adverse selection incurred by the new law's provisions.
I'm not even really that against the mandate (with the assumption that hospitals can't turn people away for emergency care), as it's kind of like auto insurance, you want a car you have to pay if you run into somebody. Similarly, we'll give you care without asking for emergencies, but you have to pay a little to insure that risk, whether that be to us or a private company. What throws everything out of whack is not letting the insurance company do its job and assess rates based on risk. 

And also poor execution throws it out of whack too. One of the main reasons that we don't like the gov't getting involved is not just ideologically, it's the understanding that private companies are more efficient than governmental entities.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 3:23 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



Trackmaster wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
Baltimore Greg wrote: To me that sounds like people quitting their jobs because they don't need to work for health insurance anymore which  A. starts to correct this notion that we work to get health benefits and B. those jobs aren't lost but opened up for the next person.

Nothing like a government program encouraging people to not work and take care of their own responsibilities. thumbup.gif

This little slice of your writing is quite eye-opening.

If you care about people being healthier and you not having to pay for their uncovered healthcare.

Who do you think is paying for their covered healthcare?
The same middle class that was paying for it before, only now we are paying TRIPLE for it.  
Before, the Hospitals simply passed the costs along to paying customers by billing dramatically higher costs to insured "customers" then need be, so that they could right off those that don't pay.  This is unchanged,  
Secondarily, the middle class will be taxed to make up for the subsidies.  
Tertiarily, Our insurance costs have now risen dramatically to make up for the  adverse selection incurred by the new law's provisions.
I'm not even really that against the mandate (with the assumption that hospitals can't turn people away for emergency care), as it's kind of like auto insurance, you want a car you have to pay if you run into somebody. Similarly, we'll give you care without asking for emergencies, but you have to pay a little to insure that risk, whether that be to us or a private company. What throws everything out of whack is not letting the insurance company do its job and assess rates based on risk. 

And also poor execution throws it out of whack too. One of the main reasons that we don't like the gov't getting involved is not just ideologically, it's the understanding that private companies are more efficient than governmental entities.
IN theory...  MAYBE
In reality....  I couldn't be MORE OPPOSED to the mandate.  How it's set up, now, if for the young and healthy to be USED as tools to support a system that is ill-advised, poorly planned and flat out pie in the sky....  

That is why young healthy individuals have deductibles much higher then expected annual healthcare costs.  They are paying exorbitant amounts of money for AIR...  NOTHING...  

I'll pay my penalty two years in a row, and then maybe the third year when the penalty gets out of control I'll start my family so I get some value for my coerced dollars.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 3:59 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



jonboy79 wrote:
Trackmaster wrote:
jonboy79 wrote:
Baltimore Greg wrote: To me that sounds like people quitting their jobs because they don't need to work for health insurance anymore which  A. starts to correct this notion that we work to get health benefits and B. those jobs aren't lost but opened up for the next person.

Nothing like a government program encouraging people to not work and take care of their own responsibilities. thumbup.gif

This little slice of your writing is quite eye-opening.

If you care about people being healthier and you not having to pay for their uncovered healthcare.

Who do you think is paying for their covered healthcare?
The same middle class that was paying for it before, only now we are paying TRIPLE for it.  
Before, the Hospitals simply passed the costs along to paying customers by billing dramatically higher costs to insured "customers" then need be, so that they could right off those that don't pay.  This is unchanged,  
Secondarily, the middle class will be taxed to make up for the subsidies.  
Tertiarily, Our insurance costs have now risen dramatically to make up for the  adverse selection incurred by the new law's provisions.
I'm not even really that against the mandate (with the assumption that hospitals can't turn people away for emergency care), as it's kind of like auto insurance, you want a car you have to pay if you run into somebody. Similarly, we'll give you care without asking for emergencies, but you have to pay a little to insure that risk, whether that be to us or a private company. What throws everything out of whack is not letting the insurance company do its job and assess rates based on risk. 

And also poor execution throws it out of whack too. One of the main reasons that we don't like the gov't getting involved is not just ideologically, it's the understanding that private companies are more efficient than governmental entities.
IN theory...  MAYBE
In reality....  I couldn't be MORE OPPOSED to the mandate.  How it's set up, now, if for the young and healthy to be USED as tools to support a system that is ill-advised, poorly planned and flat out pie in the sky....  

That is why young healthy individuals have deductibles much higher then expected annual healthcare costs.  They are paying exorbitant amounts of money for AIR...  NOTHING...  

I'll pay my penalty two years in a row, and then maybe the third year when the penalty gets out of control I'll start my family so I get some value for my coerced dollars.
But that is exactly why I was saying that arguing over who thought of the mandate and whether or not the mandate is a good idea is ridiculous thing to do.  The fact that there's a mandate itself isn't a bad thing, it's the reason behind it that's bad. It coerces people to buy into an unfair system that's stacked against them. It's akin to making people buy pre-season tickets to be season ticket holders for the "right" to buy regular season games at face value.  But in this case you're paying for the "right" to be uninsured and roll the dice because you're not allowed to buy insurance that matches your needs.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 4:08 PM

RE: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


I'm only speaking from my own expirience but I would have fired the people I had to deal with signing up at the exchange. between not being able to answer basic questions and just plain incompotence I thought my head was going to explode

Going where I want instead of where I should

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Posted: 2/4/2014 4:32 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



Baltimore Greg wrote: To me that sounds like people quitting their jobs because they don't need to work for health insurance anymore which  A. starts to correct this notion that we work to get health benefits and B. those jobs aren't lost but opened up for the next person.

Nothing like a government program encouraging people to not work and take care of their own responsibilities. thumbup.gif

This little slice of your writing is quite eye-opening.

Opening your eyes might not be so bad for you.

A.  Employers shouldn't be on the hook to pay for employees health insurance.  It is a horrible model.

B.  To suggest you have to be working to be able to receive healthcare (many can't afford healthcare without health insurance) is something you might want to reconsider as a christian.  Just my opinion.


If you care about people being healthier and you not having to pay for their uncovered healthcare.

Who do you think is paying for their covered healthcare?

The same people paying for their uncovered healthcare but it is much cheaper with preventative and regular care. 
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Posted: 2/4/2014 4:42 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



GalenSevinne wrote:


A.  Employers shouldn't be on the hook to pay for employees health insurance.  It is a horrible model.

B.  To suggest you have to be working to be able to receive healthcare (many can't afford healthcare without health insurance) is something you might want to reconsider as a christian.  Just my opinion.


If you care about people being healthier and you not having to pay for their uncovered healthcare.

Who do you think is paying for their covered healthcare?

The same people paying for their uncovered healthcare but it is much cheaper with preventative and regular care. 
Call me crazy, but I couldn't agree more with you on the first part. Even the 2nd and 3rd assertions are reasonable.  We probably have different reasons for opposing some of the things about our health system, but I'm willing to meet people halfway, I'm not a my way or the highway guy. 

To your first point, yes, it's laughable that employers are responsible for health care for every employee, and they have no accountability or choice in the matter.  But I suspect that you want the government to be in charge, not the healthcare receiver.

To your second point, I don't think that working or not working should have any bearing on anything, nor should how many green pieces of paper you have in your pocket.  It should be about how many of those dead presidents you're willing to use in exchange for a service. Let's face it, our nation is full of cheapskates, everybody wants the world, but wants somebody else to pay for it.

Yeah, the US government doesn't have the cohonas to turn away people who want free treatment (and apparently hospitals still rarely did this even before the formal law was written).  I have thicker skin than most people, but I can understand how some people don't have the stomach to make people take charge of themselves. I say for this we can set up a separate fund for specific procedures that would be very difficult to turn people away from, but nothing ongoing or ordinary. Just things where they're being rushed in and would die if they tried to haggle over whether they could pay or not.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 4:53 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


Opening your eyes might not be so bad for you.

A.  Employers shouldn't be on the hook to pay for employees health insurance.  It is a horrible model.

I never said they should be.  However, while an employer is not on the hook for your rent or food you STILL HAVE TO WORK TO GET THOSE THINGS.

B.  To suggest you have to be working to be able to receive healthcare (many can't afford healthcare without health insurance) is something you might want to reconsider as a christian.  Just my opinion.

I never suggested you had to be working to receive healthcare.  That is two strawmen in one post (so far).

As a Christian I, me, myself, am commanded to care for the poor.  Not once did Jesus ever tell us to take from others via the government or other means to do so.  It is a PERSONAL decision.  God gives us incredible freedom to do as we will, then holds us accountable for our choices.  He only places demands on those who accept his covenant.

And please note, you have absolutely no idea what I do personally.

The same people paying for their uncovered healthcare but it is much cheaper with preventative and regular care.

On what are you basing this?  Poor pregnant women on Medicaid still don't go to the doctor with the same regularity as women who are wealthier.

And if access is the problem then we are back to building clinics in these areas to cut down on ER use for non-emergencies and for providing basic care.  Giving them insurance with no place but the ER to use it, and with no basic care like screenings, is useless.  Obamacare is a massive fail.  Well, at least in those terms.  It will screw up our system enough that liberals will next call for single-payer based on the previous system not working (although it did for 85% of us) and now not working at all.  So it will work for the liberal dream of single-payer. Unless Americans finally wake up, anyway.

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Posted: 2/4/2014 4:55 PM

RE: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 


By the way, it was unions, part of the left army, that gave us the relationship between healthcare and employer. This is also true of pensions, which 401Ks and IRAs helped get rid of. A solution like that, allowing portability, was the answer,not this incredibly bad scheme.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 5:12 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



Baltimore Greg wrote:

And if access is the problem then we are back to building clinics in these areas to cut down on ER use for non-emergencies and for providing basic care.  Giving them insurance with no place but the ER to use it, and with no basic care like screenings, is useless.  Obamacare is a massive fail.  Well, at least in those terms.  It will screw up our system enough that liberals will next call for single-payer based on the previous system not working (although it did for 85% of us) and now not working at all.  So it will work for the liberal dream of single-payer. Unless Americans finally wake up, anyway.

Not so sure about that one. After this bonanza, nobody will want anybody even slightly left of center to touch healthcare with a 10 foot pole.  They had their chance and blew. Sorry guys, they weren't ready for primetime.  The free market has and will always win out over government.
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Posted: 2/4/2014 5:17 PM

Re: Obamacare will cost at least 2 million jobs 



Trackmaster wrote:
Baltimore Greg wrote:

And if access is the problem then we are back to building clinics in these areas to cut down on ER use for non-emergencies and for providing basic care.  Giving them insurance with no place but the ER to use it, and with no basic care like screenings, is useless.  Obamacare is a massive fail.  Well, at least in those terms.  It will screw up our system enough that liberals will next call for single-payer based on the previous system not working (although it did for 85% of us) and now not working at all.  So it will work for the liberal dream of single-payer. Unless Americans finally wake up, anyway.

Not so sure about that one. After this bonanza, nobody will want anybody even slightly left of center to touch healthcare with a 10 foot pole.  They had their chance and blew. Sorry guys, they weren't ready for primetime.  The free market has and will always win out over government.

While I hope you are right the dependence class in our country is getting big enough to become an unstoppable force.
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