Seahawks Should Pass on Holmgren by Brian McIntyre

Holmgren has repeatedly mentioned how he’s learned from the mistakes he made during his time as general manager, and that he’d do things differently if given another crack at that job. He’s also made no secret of his intentions to get back into the NFL next season, or of his willingness to work for Paul Allen again.

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Mac that was a good article but I respectfully disagree with it.

There is zero bad blood between Holmgren and the present coaching staff in fact they come from the same coaching tree and he knows and has worked with most all of them which puts him ahead of most other candidates who would need to reinvent the coaching staff to fit their ideal. With Ruskell gone there is nothing that points to an objective reasonable belief that Holmgren (as GM only) would not be fair with Mora and the present coaching staff. Holmgren would only be a candidate for GM and not as GM/coach and it would need to be understood his days as a coach were done before he was employed as GM.

Leaving aside the discussion of Ruskell negligently running the team onto an iceberg and it is sinking; and that discussion is a worthy discussion well short of completion. There is just one guy in the league who has an intimate knowledge of the team and who was singularly effective in creating a juggernaut O here. Of course that is Holmgren and it was Holmgren the GM/coach that put together the pieces of his O despite having to fight a back fight with Whitsitt who was constantly undercutting and attempting to kneecap him. Holmgren also was smart with the cap after inheriting a team in cap hell.

The immediate offensive needs of the team are actually quite limited, OT & OG and at present there are still a few Tackles on the roster that might allow a bridging to new players which could be picked up in the next two drafts. The C of the future is here now leaving the immediate issue of instant replacement being a couple of Guards. If anyone knows quality offensive OLinemen it is Holmgren, others not so much especially Ruskell. The other need is at RB and Holmgren is good at picking effective productive RBs as well. Of course the team also needs a successor at QB and a transition plan from our present sometime Pro Bowl QB Hasselbeck whose longevity could be extended if he was protected better from A gap and B gap attacks and blitzes while his blind side was better protected than it is presently. Holmgren is almost without equal at assessing knowing and improving QBs.

Dealing with your points as raised:

''First off, the next general manager—if Ruskell is even replaced—is in for 2-3 year overhaul of the offensive line, will be tasked with finding the quarterback of the future, and it could be a couple of seasons before the Seahawks are legitimate Super Bowl contenders. Holmgren turns 62 next summer, and it’s a fair to question whether or not he still going to want to be working in an NFL front office when he’s 65 or 66 years old."

We want Holmgren as a the GM not as the head coach and being in your 60's isn't necessarily a bad thing as far as experience and knowledge of what needs to be done as a GM. Holmgren is an acknowledged genius on the offensive side of things but can't be said to be completely ignorant of defense. Besides who could be better in terms of assessing and directing the training of a new successor QB than Holmgren. I've already said my bit about him understanding what is need as far as OLinemen, I'd be surprised if he goofed much in that regard. I'd actually be quite interested in watching Holmgren quickly fix what ruskell has negligently let fall into disrepair. Once again I do not want him coaching and think he needs to move to new level of professional football involvement just being a GM. I don't think he was given a fair shot at that but even limited he was very effective at creating his vision of the offense.

"Secondly, it wouldn’t be fair to current head coach Jim Mora to put the coach he replaced in charge of his job security. As much as I disagreed with naming a successor to Holmgren before his final season—a mistake you’ll never see another NFL team repeat—the bottom line is Mora is the head coach of this football team, and should be given the opportunity to succeed without the man he replaced looming overhead and making the team’s personnel decisions."

Why would it not be fair to Mora and Co. if they were genuinely working together? Holmgren would be the manager not the coach and Mora could pull a lot of wisdom from Holmgren without being beholden to Holmgren's every wish. The Big Show would be less of the big show and more of the manager. The time in transition to productivity in terms of replacement of weak and missing parts would be shorter if he was the GM.

"There are also legitimate questions about whether or not Holmgren can ignore the itch he has to resume his coaching career. Holmgren may aspire to a role similar to the one Bill Parcells has in Miami, but a major factor in Parcells’ ability to delegate authority and stay up in the owner’s box on Sundays is that at this stage of his life, he’d much rather be at the track in Saratoga than breaking down film in a classroom in Miami."

If any thing this could be the strongest point against him. There would need to be a condition precedent to replacing Ruskell with Holmgren; i.e. you are being signed as GM only but are not the coach and won't be the coach. In my mind I think Holmgren had come to an end as coach he lacked the energy he used to have and although his goal of winning a SB here was unfulfilled largely by outrageously egregious refereeing in XL. He still wants to be in football and is unfulfilled as a GM as we know from the Whitsitt period. Holmgren however was a coach that endured interference from above with Ruskell and Whitsitt who forced him to accept players that didn't fit Holmgren's scheme. As a result I'd suspect he's be more of a consensus rather than top down guy as Ruskell appears to be.

Ultimately I think Holmgren would be a good and effective replacement for Ruskell who could actually hit the ground running. Most of or many of the scouting staff and personnel guys would stay or could be convinced to stay. The O would certainly improve quickly and he'd have Mora's defensive mindset to counter his primarily O tendencies of which he says he would change if he had things to do over again and needed to rebuild. He'd also be done in about 5 years and we'd then be able to get a young tiger if needed.

There are still a lot of good pieces here and the fix could be quick for a guy who understood the O and who was sensible with the defense. This subject is worthy of more discussion.

Dissenting opinions are always welcome, jammerhawk.

I have no doubt that Mike Holmgren would be fair with Jim Mora--or any head coach he inherited in a front office position--but it can't be understated that Holmgren has an enormous ego, loves talking to the media, and I frankly do not believe he can remain in the shadows the way a GM has to and let Mora be the face and voice of the franchise. If Holmren wants a Parcellsian role, where he chooses a the guy who chooses the guys, that would be one thing. But that's not what he says he wants. He wants to shop for the groceries, and in a perfect world, would be the guy cooking the meal, too.

Besides, Mora has a daunting enough task filling Holmgren's shoes as head coach. Let the guy do it without Holmgren's shadow looming from the corner office.

His age is an issue because a general manager's position isn't a 2-3 year assignment. When you hire a person to run the franchise, it's not unreasonable to expect that person to be there for 5 years minimum. Turning 62 next year, I don't see him wanting to do this when he's 66 or 67.

I'm a huge Holmgren fan and as it states in the article, I would've gladly let him coach in perpetuity. But the page has been turned and it's time to look to the future, not the past.

Well, from what I can see as a fan outside of the inner workings of the Seahawks, I would submit this following list of points:

Holmgren as GM:

• Terrible track record of  defensive picks, especially in the 1st round
• Has only worked with one system (WCO, Walsh's and his version) of offense and defense
• his teams have never been that highly ranked of a defensive unit
• as a HC, stubbornly kept to his veteran players and staff, even when it was completely obvious the job wasn't getting done (hello John Marshall !)

Points for:

• Excellent communication skills, and a personality that lends itself to compromise and working with people and not against them
• Offensive genius, which would include the OL, WR and QB positions
• a long history of winning traditions, garnering respect within the organization (players and staff) and within the league

So here's the major questions that would have to be answered before I'd feel comfortable:

Holmgren is an offensive genius. Can he scout OLmen for the current system that we have ? How about WR's, or are they that much different ?

How does he improve the defense, which Ruskell has actually had some success with in draft picks ?

Can he keep from tinkering as a coach and just let Mora or whoever do their job ?

How does he handle GM duties, when he refused to get rid of guys like Marshall and Laveroni in a timely manner ?

I have no doubt that in the right situation, Holmgren could be a good GM. But I have serious reservations about his defensive picks, his ability to draft OLmen for a ZBS and Knapp's offense, which to my knowledge Holmgren has never ran before. I think he likes his veteran players too much, and doesn't allow rookies to contribute enough. I think he has a soft spot for coaches, so he might not pull the trigger on a HC, or a coaching regime that was not doing their job.

If we could come up with some sort of Offensive Line/Offense consultant which could come in and just get the job done with the OL, and find us a new franchise QB to replace Matt eventually (if Teel doesn't pan out) we would be ok. Our WR's are good, our QB is still good, we have the RB's to win now with this system, and other than revamping our secondary (which Ruskell has done successfully ones, albeit temporarily), our defense is solid.

Hawksfan46 wrote:

Well, from what I can see as a fan outside of the inner workings of the Seahawks, I would submit this following list of points:

 

 

Holmgren as GM:

 

• Terrible track record of  defensive picks, especially in the 1st round
• Has only worked with one system (WCO, Walsh's and his version) of offense and defense
• his teams have never been that highly ranked of a defensive unit
• as a HC, stubbornly kept to his veteran players and staff, even when it was completely obvious the job wasn't getting done (hello John Marshall !)

 

 

Points for:

• Excellent communication skills, and a personality that lends itself to compromise and working with people and not against them
• Offensive genius, which would include the OL, WR and QB positions
• a long history of winning traditions, garnering respect within the organization (players and staff) and within the league

 

So here's the major questions that would have to be answered before I'd feel comfortable:

 

 

Holmgren is an offensive genius. Can he scout OLmen for the current system that we have ? How about WR's, or are they that much different ?

 

 

How does he improve the defense, which Ruskell has actually had some success with in draft picks ?

 

Can he keep from tinkering as a coach and just let Mora or whoever do their job ?

 

How does he handle GM duties, when he refused to get rid of guys like Marshall and Laveroni in a timely manner ?

 

 

I have no doubt that in the right situation, Holmgren could be a good GM. But I have serious reservations about his defensive picks, his ability to draft OLmen for a ZBS and Knapp's offense, which to my knowledge Holmgren has never ran before. I think he likes his veteran players too much, and doesn't allow rookies to contribute enough. I think he has a soft spot for coaches, so he might not pull the trigger on a HC, or a coaching regime that was not doing their job.

 

 

 

If we could come up with some sort of Offensive Line/Offense consultant which could come in and just get the job done with the OL, and find us a new franchise QB to replace Matt eventually (if Teel doesn't pan out) we would be ok. Our WR's are good, our QB is still good, we have the RB's to win now with this system, and other than revamping our secondary (which Ruskell has done successfully ones, albeit temporarily), our defense is solid.

Good questions. First of all, I think Holmgren's defensive first round picks have some important caveats: 1. Lamar King was a Fritz Shurmer pick, a big, athletic DE in the mold of Reggie White. Unfortunately, Fritz died before he got to coach Lamar, and nobody else knew quite what to do with him. I think the history of Lamar King and the Seahawks would've been way different had Fritz not been taken from this world. 2. Marcus Tubbs was a phenomenal talent with little injury history when he was drafted. I submit that you can't blame the GM for unforeseeable injuries.

Now, on to your real questions:

1. Holmgren has shown the ability to nail linemen cold. Drafted Hutch, signed Tobeck and Gray . . . can't remember if he drafted Lock or not . . . All those players are the kind of players that would excell in a ZBS: agile, athletic, smart, a little undersized but tenacious. I have no doubt he could turn our line around in quick fashion. As far as receivers go, we still run a WCO, so the basic skill sets are the same: route running, hands, RAC skills, blocking ability.

2. Ruskell hasn't improved the defense. He's thrown picks and FA money at it, but the defense isn't really any better than it was under Holmgren. But can Mike make it better? That's a good question. One indication that points to "yes" is that he has admitted to building the defense wrong in his first go around (relying on older veterans) AND he will have a defensive coach holding his feet to the fire.

3. That's probably the biggest question, and one only Mike can answer. My gut says he was tired of coaching and the long hours that went along with it.

4. His loyalty is admirable, but this would probably be my biggest concern with Holmgren is his reluctance to make the difficult decisions to let people go.

After reading all the posts I think some great points have been made on both sides of the argument...When I look at this situation I have to admit that I am a Huge Holmgren fan and totally biased.... Sorry can't help it.... I think the one point that Mac made was about Holmgrens ego which IMO is legitimate... the other point that stood out to me was Gromits point about Holmgren being to loyal to players and not letting them go... that's legit as well...

 There is a wild card in this thing that I don't think many people acknowledge... Kathy Holmgren who Manages Mike... When one listens to Holmgren in his press conferences he most always says the choice WE made...  Holmgren is famous for making we statements... I believe Kathy's role in this thing is to make sure that Holmgren looks at things Honestly Including his own ego... One might think my point is some what far sighted but to me it's a point that makes a lot of since.... Nobody that I know of denies that fact that Holmgren is brilliant... The one thing left that Holmgren has to accomplish is being that great GM... He has a short amount of time to do it... I just don't believe that Kathy will let Holmgren blow it because of his ego... Not going to happen... if Holmgren wants the coaching part and the GM part and seattle was just offering the GM part he wouldn't take the job unless he truly felt he could make that distinction.....

Holmgren has ALWAYS had a great desire to do the right thing... He is as Honest as the come in football...he reconizes  his short comings and he is honest about them.. To be successful as a head coach one has to be a great manager and IMO Holmgren has proven that he is a great manager... That's not to say he didn't make mistakes along the way... his biggest managing mistakes have been believing in people... Koren Robinson, Jeremy Stevens.... Enter Holmgren's ego, he believed he could turn these guys around by being reasonable and managing them... enter drug addiction and alchol addiction... being reasonable and trying to manage those types of situations are not worth the price.... I think Holmgren has learned from those situations... The one thing I know about Holmgren is he rarely if ever makes the same mistakes twice,  he is two brilliant for that...

As far as Holmgrens defenses are concerned; during Holmgrens time in GB he relied on his relationship with Fritz Shurmer to take care of the defensive side of the ball as he wants to think about the offensive side... the mistake he made IMO was he could never duplicate Shurmer.... he tried to give Shurmers responsibly to other D coordinators and it just didn't work out... he tried to recreate that system instead of becoming more involved in the defense... This isn't to say because he wanted to deal with the offensive side of the ball that he can't deal with the defensive side of the ball it was just how Holmgren organized it... I believe in listening to his interviews that he recognizes that mistake....

Bottom line is there is NO ONE I would rather have run this organization than Holmgren. IMO there are very few football minds that are better... I believe he has earned the right for a second chance for what he has done for this organization and for football in general....

Edit:  

 I forgot to talk about Mora.... I have been a sharp critic of Mora mostly because of his interaction with the media... is he a good football coach or is he not? To early to tell actually... but I'll tell ya one thing there isn't anyone who would benifit from being around Holmgren than Mora... I believe that Holmgren would be really good for him... If Holmgren was hired as GM I don't know if he would keep Mora around or not... I kinda think it might be Zorn and I would not have a problem with that... Is it fair? maybe, maybe not.... but I'm not sure it was always fair the way Holmgren was treated by Whittsett or Ruskell... the bottom line is I believe Holmgren will be fair with Mora as that is who he is as a person...

Just my take,

LTH68