Y'know, I never thought that ex-Lions WR Roy Williams was worth anywhere CLOSE to what we gave up for him -- both in draft picks and in salary -- but I thought he was AT LEAST a pretty good player.  Not an elite player, mind you... but GOOD.

He's not.  

Roy Williams is what he is, and that's a below-average WR who posts below-average numbers on a pass-happy team with one of the best QBs in the NFL.  And no, he's not getting doubled; he's just not getting any separation whatsoever.  It's like watching Keyshawn Johnson run routes late in his career... but unlike Keyshawn, Roy's not winning the one-on-one opportunities.  Either he'll drop the ball, get out-muscled & pushed out of position, or zig when Romo expected him to zag.  The only thing he's doing at an above-average level right now is blocking.  Just like Keyshawn Johnson.

Come to think of it, the last time a good, young, healthy player deteriorate as fast as Roy Williams was... well, it was Roy Williams.  (Note to Jerry: No more blockbuster contract extensions for players named Roy Williams.)

Some other thoughts:

-During the offseason, I would've gladly let Miles Austin leave for a second rounder.  Now, I wouldn't trade him for a first rounder.

-Newman had a solid game yesterday, but his play has been spotty this season.  He always had lousy ball-skills, but he used to cover WRs so tightly, the QB wouldn't take too many shots at him.  Now, the amount of separation between him and his man is noticeably greater than in years past.  I think he's a player in decline.  Some might point to his injury history over the past few years as the primary catalyst, but I think it's more of an age-thing.  Dallas should spend an early draft pick on a CB in April, 'cause I don't know how effective Newman will be in '10 and '11.  Or late December '09.

-When Carpenter made a play (!) and sacked the QB, did you notice that when he celebrated by jumping into his teammates, it STILL sorta looked like he was shying away from contact?

-Davis and Gurode double-teaming DTs is almost unfair.  They were collapsing opponents all game long.

-After the game was all tied up, I didn't like watching Felix Jones still taking snaps.  Let Choice carry the ball for F's sake, not the most injury-prone player on our offense.

-I don't see any drop-off from Canty '08 to Igor '09 whatsoever.  He was spinning blockers like they were dreidels.

-More Ogletree, please.

-During Seattle's first series of the game -- where they went like 65 yards and had to settle for a FG -- y'know, if Nick Folk was still handling KOs, that would've been a TD.

-I guess Jason Garrett is smart again.

-For the first month of the season, Greg Ellis was clearly a better player than Anthony Spencer.  Now, they're probably about even.  And by week 12 and onto the future, I suspect Spencer will zoom ahead.  He's playing very well.

-Man, this team has been REMARKABLY free of injuries.  Which is the second biggest reason why we're now doing well, the first being Tony Romo's recent play.  I believe that the top-25 players on the Cowboys' roster are as good as the top-25 players on any other team in the entire league.  After that... eh, not as much.  But if Romo continues to play like this -- and we can lean heavily on our top-25 players for the rest of the year -- then this IS a team that can contend for the Lombardi. 

Two pretty big if's, I know.

AndrewDiceClay wrote:

Y'know, I never thought that ex-Lions WR Roy Williams was worth anywhere CLOSE to what we gave up for him -- both in draft picks and in salary -- but I thought he was AT LEAST a pretty good player.  Not an elite player, mind you... but GOOD.

 

He's not.

 

Roy Williams is what he is, and that's a below-average WR who posts below-average numbers on a pass-happy team with one of the best QBs in the NFL.  And no, he's not getting doubled; he's just not getting any separation whatsoever.  It's like watching Keyshawn Johnson run routes late in his career... but unlike Keyshawn, Roy's not winning the one-on-one opportunities.  Either he'll drop the ball, get out-muscled & pushed out of position, or zig when Romo expected him to zag.  The only thing he's doing at an above-average level right now is blocking.  Just like Keyshawn Johnson.

 

Come to think of it, the last time a good, young, healthy player deteriorate as fast as Roy Williams was... well, it was Roy Williams.  (Note to Jerry: No more blockbuster contract extensions for players named Roy Williams.)

 

Some other thoughts:

 

-During the offseason, I would've gladly let Miles Austin leave for a second rounder.  Now, I wouldn't trade him for a first rounder.

 

-Newman had a solid game yesterday, but his play has been spotty this season.  He always had lousy ball-skills, but he used to cover WRs so tightly, the QB wouldn't take too many shots at him.  Now, the amount of separation between him and his man is noticeably greater than in years past.  I think he's a player in decline.  Some might point to his injury history over the past few years as the primary catalyst, but I think it's more of an age-thing.  Dallas should spend an early draft pick on a CB in April, 'cause I don't know how effective Newman will be in '10 and '11.  Or late December '09.

 

-When Carpenter made a play (!) and sacked the QB, did you notice that when he celebrated by jumping into his teammates, it STILL sorta looked like he was shying away from contact?

 

-Davis and Gurode double-teaming DTs is almost unfair.  They were collapsing opponents all game long.

 

Our Oline can be dominant and they play with a mean streak, really loving the  5 freaks of nature this year

 

-After the game was all tied up, I didn't like watching Felix Jones still taking snaps.  Let Choice carry the ball for F's sake, not the most injury-prone player on our offense.

Why aren't we giving Choice more opportunities? He might not have all the talent that Felix has but he has the production. Vision and balance are more important in grinding out a game than speed and that's where Choice excells.  Also, Choice doesn't have the top gear or open field vision (different than in the hole vision) but he has a serious burst in the hole to get through some tight spots and manage to get positive yards.  When we start to put away games a healthy dose of MB3 and Choice will make a D tap out.

 

-I don't see any drop-off from Canty '08 to Igor '09 whatsoever.  He was spinning blockers like they were dreidels.

 

-More Ogletree, please.

-During Seattle's first series of the game -- where they went like 65 yards and had to settle for a FG -- y'know, if Nick Folk was still handling KOs, that would've been a TD.

 

Not so sure about that, but I do love me some Beuhler

 

-I guess Jason Garrett is smart again.

 

-For the first month of the season, Greg Ellis was clearly a better player than Anthony Spencer.  Now, they're probably about even.  And by week 12 and onto the future, I suspect Spencer will zoom ahead.  He's playing very well.

 

Needs to stop running himself out of position and start making those plays he's 1/2 a second late on

 

-Man, this team has been REMARKABLY free of injuries.  Which is the second biggest reason why we're now doing well, the first being Tony Romo's recent play.  I believe that the top-25 players on the Cowboys' roster are as good as the top-25 players on any other team in the entire league.  After that... eh, not as much.  But if Romo continues to play like this -- and we can lean heavily on our top-25 players for the rest of the year -- then this IS a team that can contend for the Lombardi.

 

Two pretty big if's, I know.

 

 

 

UnionJack8 wrote:

- Mike Jenkins has really taken huge steps forward. That CB position is his own now. He is tight in covarge, is tackling well, includinh some good one on one hits and his ball skills are the best of our DB's. Kudos to him for overcoming the whole Bradshaw tackle debacle last year.

That Bradshaw thing couldn't possibly have been blown any more out of proportion.

AndrewDiceClay wrote:

 

Come to think of it, the last time a good, young, healthy player deteriorate as fast as Roy Williams was... well, it was Roy Williams.  (Note to Jerry: No more blockbuster contract extensions for players named Roy Williams.)

 

 

Never--that's the point that you overlook. It is impossible that he has regressed. It is injuries and lack of chemistry. Give him time healthy to get into the game.

Dallas throws the ball 52.75% of the time. Thats hardly pass happy. And Roy is open constantly, he gets plenty of seperation.

I am a RW fan but yesterday was quite pathetic.

My loyalties to the cowboys bears much more weight then my loyalty to any individual. 

AndrewDiceClay wrote:

Y'know, I never thought that ex-Lions WR Roy Williams was worth anywhere CLOSE to what we gave up for him -- both in draft picks and in salary -- but I thought he was AT LEAST a pretty good player.  Not an elite player, mind you... but GOOD.

 

He's not.

 

Roy Williams is what he is, and that's a below-average WR who posts below-average numbers on a pass-happy team with one of the best QBs in the NFL.  And no, he's not getting doubled; he's just not getting any separation whatsoever.  It's like watching Keyshawn Johnson run routes late in his career... but unlike Keyshawn, Roy's not winning the one-on-one opportunities.  Either he'll drop the ball, get out-muscled & pushed out of position, or zig when Romo expected him to zag.  The only thing he's doing at an above-average level right now is blocking.  Just like Keyshawn Johnson.

 

Come to think of it, the last time a good, young, healthy player deteriorate as fast as Roy Williams was... well, it was Roy Williams.  (Note to Jerry: No more blockbuster contract extensions for players named Roy Williams.)

 

Deteriorate? I'm not ready to go there yet...I just think he hasn't found his niche yet. We've got a lot of moving parts right now. Crayton is trying to excel in the slot. Austin is stretching the defense with his routes. I think Roy needs  a heavy dose of slants, square ins and outs where he can use his body to shield defenders. I don't think he's good in space trying to make adjustments to the ball. Garrett has to put him in situations where he has the best chance to be successful. I think we're still trying to put square pegs in round holes.

 

Some other thoughts:

 

-During the offseason, I would've gladly let Miles Austin leave for a second rounder.  Now, I wouldn't trade him for a first rounder.

 

-Newman had a solid game yesterday, but his play has been spotty this season.  He always had lousy ball-skills, but he used to cover WRs so tightly, the QB wouldn't take too many shots at him.  Now, the amount of separation between him and his man is noticeably greater than in years past.  I think he's a player in decline.  Some might point to his injury history over the past few years as the primary catalyst, but I think it's more of an age-thing.  Dallas should spend an early draft pick on a CB in April, 'cause I don't know how effective Newman will be in '10 and '11.  Or late December '09.

 

Newman's missed tackle on third down kept the drive alive which eventually resulted in a TD. Very Poor!! He made up for it later by causing the fumble, but still, he's an elite player. Elite players don't whiff on tackles! His pass defense was above average. Got to have more picks though. On one drive alone, the D had three opportunities for picks and got zero.

 

-When Carpenter made a play (!) and sacked the QB, did you notice that when he celebrated by jumping into his teammates, it STILL sorta looked like he was shying away from contact?

 

Business decision.

 

-Davis and Gurode double-teaming DTs is almost unfair.  They were collapsing opponents all game long.

 

 

 

-After the game was all tied up, I didn't like watching Felix Jones still taking snaps.  Let Choice carry the ball for F's sake, not the most injury-prone player on our offense.

 

-I don't see any drop-off from Canty '08 to Igor '09 whatsoever.  He was spinning blockers like they were dreidels.

 

-More Ogletree, please.

 

More blowouts and more Ogletree.

 

-During Seattle's first series of the game -- where they went like 65 yards and had to settle for a FG -- y'know, if Nick Folk was still handling KOs, that would've been a TD.

 

How true. If a team has to work the ball an extra set of downs or two because of field position, the odds of break down increase. Home field is definitely to our advantage for Buehler with the perfect wind conditions. Touchbacks are pretty much a given.

 

-I guess Jason Garrett is smart again.

 

 

-For the first month of the season, Greg Ellis was clearly a better player than Anthony Spencer.  Now, they're probably about even.  And by week 12 and onto the future, I suspect Spencer will zoom ahead.  He's playing very well.

 

Being an older player, Ellis will start to break down as the season goes on.  Spencer, like you said, should be zoom zooming.

 

-Man, this team has been REMARKABLY free of injuries.  Which is the second biggest reason why we're now doing well, the first being Tony Romo's recent play.  I believe that the top-25 players on the Cowboys' roster are as good as the top-25 players on any other team in the entire league.  After that... eh, not as much.  But if Romo continues to play like this -- and we can lean heavily on our top-25 players for the rest of the year -- then this IS a team that can contend for the Lombardi.

 

Two pretty big if's, I know.

One game at a time.

 

 

AndrewDiceClay wrote:

 

-During the offseason, I would've gladly let Miles Austin leave for a second rounder.  Now, I wouldn't trade him for a first rounder.

 

-Newman had a solid game yesterday, but his play has been spotty this season.  He always had lousy ball-skills, but he used to cover WRs so tightly, the QB wouldn't take too many shots at him.  Now, the amount of separation between him and his man is noticeably greater than in years past.  I think he's a player in decline.  Some might point to his injury history over the past few years as the primary catalyst, but I think it's more of an age-thing.  Dallas should spend an early draft pick on a CB in April, 'cause I don't know how effective Newman will be in '10 and '11.  Or late December '09.

 

Nice observations.

Good posts but again, I think we are coming down on R. Williams too hard. I don't see him as weak or slow, not anymore than let's say Crayton. I just think the biggest difference is, he doesn't have any timing with Romo. Some of those plays he was open and Romo missed and some it looked like he ran the wrong route.

I still think he can be effective, especially in the redzone. I'm not giving up on R. Williams just yet.

Here's to hoping KO gets in more.

If KO proves to be good then Jerry can admit (doubt he will) that he was wrong and dump Williams at the end of the year.

GO COWBOYS!!

rochjm21 wrote:

Dallas throws the ball 52.75% of the time. Thats hardly pass happy. And Roy is open constantly, he gets plenty of seperation.

There is Roy Williams open and there is Miles Austin open.  Granted we are talking 3 games here but the difference between the two has been the difference between a serviceable guy and a stud.

rochjm21 wrote:

Dallas throws the ball 52.75% of the time. Thats hardly pass happy. And Roy is open constantly, he gets plenty of seperation.

No, he isn't and no, he doesn't.

I like Roy Williams.  I want him to succeed.  But he isn't getting wide open....even when he makes catches it's in traffic. 

There is an issue there.  Romo does not throw accurately to him.  There is no doubt about it.....but Roy is also the slowest guy down the field.  He is not quick off the line or out of breaks.  But if Romo can target him accurately, he should be hell on wheels on slants, crossing routes, posts and fades.  For this team to have a complete offense, they need this connection to start working.

RW is going to be around for the next 2 years after this no matter what, so we all better hope he starts getting at least average results for a #2 WR on a top team.  Right now his stats are something like you'd see out of the #3 WR on Cleveland or St. Louis.... except he's getting paid $45 million vs. some 2nd year guy earning $400k. 

Roy Williams is terrible and I dont wanna hear anything about him and Romo not having the timing down or dont have chemistry yet or its not his style of offense. He and Romo have had plenty of time to get it going. He has been on the team for 17 games plus an offseason in between. This is pathetic. Romo seems to do just fine with every other receiver. And we r not using him correctly? Roy u r probably right on that one since you should be our 4th or 5th WR instead of our starter. Roy sucks. Good trade Jerry.

Dice I agree giving up what jerry did to trade for Roy was way too much!!  And so far the production has not been there he has done well as a blocking wr  and has made a few catches. I do like his attitude and think given alittle more time he and Romo will start connecting but its not like he will ever be a fitzgerald or randy moss type his production will be of a 2nd wr - around 50 catches for 800 to 900 yds and 8 to 10 tds are possible. Bottomline jerry should have only offered a 2nd and 4th  but it is what it is and with the way we now spread around the ball everyone has their chance to make an impact hopefully Roy's #'S Get better he and Romo can get on the same page will find that out before the end of this season.

FLACOWPOKE wrote:

 

rochjm21 wrote:

Dallas throws the ball 52.75% of the time. Thats hardly pass happy. And Roy is open constantly, he gets plenty of seperation.

No, he isn't and no, he doesn't.

 

I like Roy Williams.  I want him to succeed.  But he isn't getting wide open....even when he makes catches it's in traffic.

 

There is an issue there.  Romo does not throw accurately to him.  There is no doubt about it.....but Roy is also the slowest guy down the field.  He is not quick off the line or out of breaks.  But if Romo can target him accurately, he should be hell on wheels on slants, crossing routes, posts and fades.  For this team to have a complete offense, they need this connection to start working.

Let me ask you a serious question though and be honest in your answer.

Do you think that Crayton is faster than R. Williams? Because I remember not to long ago, people flooding this place with, "Crayton needs to be benched because he's too slow".

Now all of a sudden, he's relevant again.

I personally don't think R. Williams is any slower than Crayton. As a matter of fact i will go on the line and say he's faster in a straight line sprint.

I think the bigger issue is timing. Him and Romo are just not on the same page. There were some times where he was open and Romo missed him. There were some times where he ran the wrong route.

I understand people for getting frustrated with him but I still think he can be an asset to this team, I really do.

Yeah, I think its pretty much official.  WR Roy Williams is a bust....And we paid a hefty price to get him.....What was Jerry thinking? And more importantly,  WTF was the scout team thinking??  You dont make that kind of move without doing your homework on the guy.....and somebody , somewhere,  got it wrong!!!!  Just like the Barbie Carpenter fiasco....its hard to predict and evaulate,   but they get paid a lot of money to do these things....

Anyway,  the question now is.......What the hell are the Cowboys going to do with Roy Williams????  Start him the first series to justify the money,  sell his jersey, get him to do local charity work,   ????   Its Austin, Austin, Austin.   thats the guy........I dont think Austin is a fluke....I think Romo is going to go to him more and more....but,  again,  what to do about RW??

Good post, Dice.

DallasFan8 wrote:

Roy Williams is terrible and I dont wanna hear anything about him and Romo not having the timing down or dont have chemistry yet or its not his style of offense. He and Romo have had plenty of time to get it going. He has been on the team for 17 games plus an offseason in between. This is pathetic. Romo seems to do just fine with every other receiver. And we r not using him correctly? Roy u r probably right on that one since you should be our 4th or 5th WR instead of our starter. Roy sucks. Good trade Jerry.

I didn't want the Cowboys to draft him coming out of college. I thought he was overrated then. I was disappointed we traded for him and gave him the keys to the vault. However, now I am pulling for him and hoping things will work out.

Twice he ran one way and Romo threw the other way. If Romo had thrown the way Roy went, I think it would have been a td. I think Roy made the wrong cut only because Romo should know the play that was called.

Of course, thinking back there were times Romo and TO had the same problem. Then I thought TO wasn't studying the playbook enough, but TO was known for his hard work in practice. Both situations are difficult to figure out. Maybe Romo and Roy will be able to read the defenses the same way. If they do, Roy could be a very good player. IMHO.