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Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting

Posted: 8/15/2014 11:56 PM

Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


academically marginal student athletes.  ND has been a school greatly respected for placing academics and athletics on the same plane and been much admired for generations.  This problem goes away if the student athlete`s academic bona fides are above reproach.  Desperation can sometimes cloud the judgement of any person but especially younger folks who do not realize the ramifications of their decisions.  Joe Schad on ESPN has alluded to an academic advisor being involved.  Hope that is not true.

 Educate and inform the whole mass of the people.   They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

Last edited 8/16/2014 12:53 AM by Rocky17

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Posted: 8/15/2014 11:58 PM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


Frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about. Even awesome students cheat occasionally.
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Posted: 8/16/2014 12:07 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


The funny thing is that, if you were to discuss the admission of "marginal student athletes," these would not be the kids you would be discussing.

But thanks for stopping by. Feel free to bring a clue next time.




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--- Rocky17 wrote:

academically marginal student athletes.  ND has been a school greatly respected for placing academics and athletics on the same plane and been much admired for generations.  This problem goes away if the student athlete`s academic bona fides are above reproach.  Desperation can sometimes cloud the judgement of any person but especially younger folks who do not realize the ramifications of their decision.  Joe Schad has alluded to an academic advisor being involved.  Hope that is not true.

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Posted: 8/16/2014 12:20 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


Gav - Daniels was a marginal student.  Ishaq I thought was a solid student.  The other two I really don't know much anything about.  
GaviND wrote: The funny thing is that, if you were to discuss the admission of "marginal student athletes," these would not be the kids you would be discussing.

But thanks for stopping by. Feel free to bring a clue next time.




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--- Rocky17 wrote:

academically marginal student athletes.  ND has been a school greatly respected for placing academics and athletics on the same plane and been much admired for generations.  This problem goes away if the student athlete`s academic bona fides are above reproach.  Desperation can sometimes cloud the judgement of any person but especially younger folks who do not realize the ramifications of their decision.  Joe Schad has alluded to an academic advisor being involved.  Hope that is not true.

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Posted: 8/16/2014 12:22 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


Is this guy serious?


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--- SubFANtheTroll wrote:

Gav - Daniels was a marginal student.  Ishaq I thought was a solid student.  The other two I really don't know much anything about.  
GaviND wrote: The funny thing is that, if you were to discuss the admission of "marginal student athletes," these would not be the kids you would be discussing.

But thanks for stopping by. Feel free to bring a clue next time.




---------------------------------------------
--- Rocky17 wrote:

academically marginal student athletes.  ND has been a school greatly respected for placing academics and athletics on the same plane and been much admired for generations.  This problem goes away if the student athlete`s academic bona fides are above reproach.  Desperation can sometimes cloud the judgement of any person but especially younger folks who do not realize the ramifications of their decision.  Joe Schad has alluded to an academic advisor being involved.  Hope that is not true.

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Posted: 8/16/2014 12:25 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


Fair point -- three of the four were not marginal.

Russell in particular was in very good standing coming out of HS.

Still, there are others who fit the OP's intent better.


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--- SubFANtheTroll wrote:

Gav - Daniels was a marginal student.  Ishaq I thought was a solid student.  The other two I really don't know much anything about.  
GaviND wrote: The funny thing is that, if you were to discuss the admission of "marginal student athletes," these would not be the kids you would be discussing.

But thanks for stopping by. Feel free to bring a clue next time.




---------------------------------------------
--- Rocky17 wrote:

academically marginal student athletes.  ND has been a school greatly respected for placing academics and athletics on the same plane and been much admired for generations.  This problem goes away if the student athlete`s academic bona fides are above reproach.  Desperation can sometimes cloud the judgement of any person but especially younger folks who do not realize the ramifications of their decision.  Joe Schad has alluded to an academic advisor being involved.  Hope that is not true.

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Posted: 8/16/2014 12:41 AM

I Never Said All Four Were Marginal Academically 


but some news reports alluded to the students struggling in the classroom.  Of course, it is possible that any student might not apply himself and do poorly.  ND athletics, however, are not an SEC school`s athletics.  Any ND coach should recruit only students who have a more than reasonable expectation of doing well academically.  Some news reports about the four  were not consistent with that philosophy.  Coaching at ND is tough enough without having to worry about students not capable of making it in the classroom.  I truly hope ND gets through this with minimal ramifications as the school is such an integral part of college football today and historically.  My Dad was an incredible ND fan and I grew up listening to Lindsay Nelson, Monty Stickles, Daryl Lamonica, Nick Pietrosante and Nick Buonoconti on my radio.  College football needs a relevant ND program.

http://www.chatsports.com/notr...Wins-10-133-701

 Educate and inform the whole mass of the people.   They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

Last edited 8/16/2014 1:13 AM by Rocky17

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Posted: 8/16/2014 12:47 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 



I'd be all for that if schools like Alabama, Michigan, and Florida state quit recruiting athletes that have no business setting foot on a college campus anywhere in America.

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--- Rocky17 wrote:

academically marginal student athletes.  ND has been a school greatly respected for placing academics and athletics on the same plane and been much admired for generations.  This problem goes away if the student athlete`s academic bona fides are above reproach.  Desperation can sometimes cloud the judgement of any person but especially younger folks who do not realize the ramifications of their decision.  Joe Schad has alluded to an academic advisor being involved.  Hope that is not true.

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"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend" - Margaret Thatcher
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Posted: 8/16/2014 1:02 AM

Re: I Never Said All Four Were Marginal Academically 


1. You can't believe everything you hear. I heard one Kendall Moore described in one report as an excellent linebacker. That is the first time that's been said about him since he was in high school. I will concede that Daniels' academic struggles are well documented.

2. Earning admission and being successful upon arrival are not mutually exclusive. My brother was top ten in his class and got a 1430 on his SAT (old school out of 1600) -- a very bright and deserving applicant by any measure. Anyway, he struggled to the point that he eventually switched majors.

3. This obviously isn't a shining moment in ND history, but this stuff happens at a lot of schools. I'm sure that Stanford has more than a few guys that are struggling to stay afloat and is bet they even have a few guys who aren't singing in the choir Sunday morning.


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--- Rocky17 wrote:

but some news reports alluded to the students struggling in the classroom.  Of course, it is possible that any student might not apply himself and do poorly.  ND athletics, however, are not an SEC school`s athletics.  Any ND coach should recruit only students who have a more than reasonable expectation of doing well academically.  Some news reports about the four  were not consistent with that philosophy.  Coaching at ND is tough enough without having to worry about students not capable of making it in the classroom.  I truly hope ND gets through this with minimal ramifications as the school is such an integral part of college football today and historically.  My Dad was an incredible ND fan and I grew up listening to Lindsay Nelson, Monty Stickles, Daryl Lamonica, Nick Pietrosante and Nick Buonoconti on my radio.  College football needs a relevant ND program.

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Posted: 8/16/2014 1:33 AM

Re: I Never Said All Four Were Marginal Academically 


Stanford is really hard to enter and nearly impossible to get ejected.
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Posted: 8/16/2014 1:43 AM

Re: I Never Said All Four Were Marginal Academically 



GaviND wrote: 1. You can't believe everything you hear. I heard one Kendall Moore described in one report as an excellent linebacker.  
Just ouch. Lol
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Posted: 8/16/2014 2:02 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


Fans should take responsibility for whining that we aren't on Bama's level.

Last edited 8/16/2014 2:02 AM by NotreDameJoe

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Posted: 8/16/2014 6:41 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


i'll wait for urban to apologize before i demand anything from bk
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Posted: 8/16/2014 8:19 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


You state that they are highly respected for placing academics and athletics on the same plane, who says this honestly other than ND fans. Did you see where your business program measured compared to the country. Michigan's was much higher since someone mentioned their standards earlier. They recruit many of the same players as Michigan, Alabama, Florida, etc... You have a high graduation rate and you have five or more football players known to be cheating(wonder why it is high). Your academic standards may have been difficult 20 years ago but college football has become a money making machine. Every school is trying to get as much as they can and going after the same recruits, even if their past is questionable. ND is doing the same thing as other schools and ND fans should just admit that. Get off your high horse and admit the facts. If you look at the past five years or so your recruits aren't all squeaky clean, nor are the rest of the country. Just admit that your so called HIGH STANDARDS are just BS and an excuse. Don't worry the players will be back, your past history of  disciplining players has been questionable also. Michael Floyd???????????
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Posted: 8/16/2014 9:04 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


You have so many accurate facts here I don't know where to begin in congratulating you on a well written post. 
guy2209 wrote: You state that they are highly respected for placing academics and athletics on the same plane, who says this honestly other than ND fans. Did you see where your business program measured compared to the country. Michigan's was much higher since someone mentioned their standards earlier. They recruit many of the same players as Michigan, Alabama, Florida, etc... You have a high graduation rate and you have five or more football players known to be cheating(wonder why it is high). Your academic standards may have been difficult 20 years ago but college football has become a money making machine. Every school is trying to get as much as they can and going after the same recruits, even if their past is questionable. ND is doing the same thing as other schools and ND fans should just admit that. Get off your high horse and admit the facts. If you look at the past five years or so your recruits aren't all squeaky clean, nor are the rest of the country. Just admit that your so called HIGH STANDARDS are just BS and an excuse. Don't worry the players will be back, your past history of  disciplining players has been questionable also. Michael Floyd???????????


Repping #45 Romeo Okwara

#75 Daniel Cage "2nd unofficial player rep"

Last edited 8/16/2014 9:14 AM by michigansajoke

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Posted: 8/16/2014 9:24 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


The vast majority of guys ND recruits are substantially less qualified academically than the kids they are competing with in class. Even then, It think that ND tends to recruit guys that are better qualified than 98% of DI football programs.

The problem isn't who they are recruiting but just dealing with the reality that some of these kids (like some of any group of kids if given the chance, even some super smart kids) will cheat if given the chance. ND just has to be as vigilant as possible to make sure that they get support, but not cheating assistance.

At nearly any other school this would simply be swept under the rug. Until I see that a professor or a football coach knew or should have known about this, it really is no big deal and just a sign that ND is dealing with problems that come to its attention appropriately (rather than sweeping them under the rug).

It does such if they lose three key starters this year and/or lose wins from the 2012 season (and have to deal with the never ending jokes that everything about that season didn't really happen). Otherwise, as long as no ND coaches or professors knew or should have known, I don't think it will have lasting imact.
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Posted: 8/16/2014 9:30 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


Like other posters have said, 3 of these guys were hardly marginal students and would have been accepted to any D1 school except maybe Stanford. I'm sure Russell would have been accepted to Stanford. He was a very impressive HS student. There was an interview special with him last year where he shared some of the poetry he had been writing in his free time and a couple of campus plays he was in. Outside of Robinson, he is the last player I would expect to cheat, especially to this degree.

I'm not sure Kelly can be held directly responsible for any of this, unless he knew about it when it was happening and did nothing.
 
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Posted: 8/16/2014 10:55 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


Brian Kelly would never tolerate cheating or academic dishonesty.  I just think for ND and a few other schools who rate highly academically, they should recruit character as well as GPA and SAT`s to minimize the possibility this could happen and take away from athletic success and tradition.   Thus, my premise that Kelly has to take some responsibility for what happened although he certainly would never condone it.  He understands ND. In the SEC, this might never have been reported.  The cynic in me  hints that possibly it would be considered business as usual.  The powers that be at ND have a long tradition of high ethics and high standards.  They are doing what they think is the right thing to do for Notre Dame.  In the short run, it will be painful.  In the long run, it is critical for the ND mission.

 Educate and inform the whole mass of the people.   They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

Last edited 8/16/2014 11:08 AM by Rocky17

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Posted: 8/16/2014 11:25 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 



Rocky17 wrote: Brian Kelly would never tolerate cheating or academic dishonesty.  I just think for ND and a few other schools who rate highly academically, they should recruit character as well as GPA and SAT`s to minimize the possibility this could happen and take away from athletic success and tradition.
How do you predict which academically gifted students will cheat?
Proudly repping #5 Golson
and also ndalum64
Who's also repping Golson

Also co-repping Max Redfield
with sixtyheim
Just Jaylon Smith now
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Posted: 8/16/2014 11:39 AM

Re: Kelly Has to Take Some Responsibility For Recruiting 


I am not a Notre Dame fan, per se, but I love college sports and have been an observer of NCAA recruiting procedures for years.
Please correct me if I am wrong (about Notre Dame's policy), but  virtually all NCAA schools, with the exception of the Ivy League, recruit and admit kids utilizing NCAA  admission requirements----this includes private schools like Duke, Notre Dame, Georgetown and the "prestige " public institutions---take your pick.
Under NCAA rules participating schools can use a limited number (used to be about 130) of exceptions to their normal admissions requirements----which means:
1--The admission requirements (SAT, ACT, GPA, any written exam) are greatly reduced. (They can be seen at the NCAA website).
2--The NCAA screens the recruit's transcripts and insures its standards are met through the NCAA Clearinghouse.
3--,The results are sent to the university admissions office, which decides if the recruit will be admitted.
4---Some NCAA schools, perhaps ND, then review the NCAA Clearinghouse results in a Non Athletic Department committee (some with AD participation) to finally decide if the recruit will be admitted and what, if any, academic  remediation must be accomplished before full admission.
5--The student (athlete) is admitted, with whatever scholarship the university awards.
The point of all this is that under NCAA rules NCAA particpating  schools admit kids with the full knowledge that they are marginal students, as compared to the normally admitted student.
If you want to blame someone for having marginal students at Notre Dame, blame Notre Dame's administration and the NCAA, not the coach.

Last edited 8/16/2014 11:41 AM by weazl1

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