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ACC Culture / UNC

Posted: 6/6/2014 11:41 AM

ACC Culture / UNC 


in another thread a few people told me they thought ND was a better cultural fit in the ACC than the Big 10 because the ACC shared NDs values.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11036924/fo rmer-north-carolina-basketball-star-rashad-mccants -says-took-sham-classes

really?  We expel kids for whole seasons for academic fraud.  UNC is the most powerful and influential school in the ACC they really care about their academics there no?  Call themselves a "public ivy" despite fact that Ivy league schools don't give athletic scholarships while at UNC scholarship athletes don't even have to go to class.  Even at Michigan with their ******** classes the guys at least have to show up.  FSU is even worse if you read some of the columns / articles from their anonymous professors posted to sites like Deadspin.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 11:48 AM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


ND is more like Duke, Ga Tech, Virginia, Wake Forrest, ect. than any school in the Big 10 save Northwestern.

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Posted: 6/6/2014 12:06 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 



dosch44 wrote: ND is more like Duke, Ga Tech, Virginia, Wake Forrest, ect. than any school in the Big 10 save Northwestern.
In defense of the P1G, Purdue is pretty good academically, as evidenced by their lousy football team.biggrin
#5, Everett Golson. 62/96 780 yds 7 TD 0 INT; 83 rush, 4 TD
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Posted: 6/6/2014 12:07 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 



ewcoold wrote: in another thread a few people told me they thought ND was a better cultural fit in the ACC than the Big 10 because the ACC shared NDs values.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11036924/fo rmer-north-carolina-basketball-star-rashad-mccants -says-took-sham-classes

really?  We expel kids for whole seasons for academic fraud.  UNC is the most powerful and influential school in the ACC they really care about their academics there no?  Call themselves a "public ivy" despite fact that Ivy league schools don't give athletic scholarships while at UNC scholarship athletes don't even have to go to class.  Even at Michigan with their ******** classes the guys at least have to show up.  FSU is even worse if you read some of the columns / articles from their anonymous professors posted to sites like Deadspin.
Agree about UNC, they are WAY overrated academically as it refers to athletic scholarship players, both football and basketball. Pretty decent school if you're not a jock, tho.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 12:07 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


Considering the ACC has quite a few "private" schools, The size, student body and the academics at most of them and you can see the cultural fit is extremely good.

Its not like ND can create a conference full of schools like Stanford, Northwestern and a few others.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 12:13 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


Big 10 now has Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Chicago now, add ND that would be 4 very prestigious private schools.

Want to see something shocking. African American Studies is the major with the fake classes, no show classes and automatic A's. UNC's 2005 National Championship Basketball Team had 9 players who majored in AFAM.

this is from Dukes site....

For reference:

AFAM, African Studies, and Undeclared majors in UNC basketball and the associated banners which may need to come down.

--------------

Note 1: Julius Nyang'oro arrived at UNC in the Fall of 1984.

Note 2: A few non-banner seasons were included when necessary to show additional players or team managers (for info purposes) who also majored in AFAM.

Note 3: Past UNC Basketball Blue Book releases have included the majors for all former players by class (year) dating back to 1962. This info inclusion stopped following the 2005 season.

--------------

Class of 1987
Curtis Hunter - African Studies

Class of 1988
Ranzino Smith - AFAM

(Though predating the elevation of Nyang'oro to head of the AFAM department, he was teaching AFAM classes during Smith and Hunter's educational period at UNC. The Tar Heels claim Regular Season titles from 85, 87, and 88 with them on the roster).

-------------------

Season:

1991
Banners: ACC Tournament; Final Four

George Lynch - African Studies
Derrick Phelps - AFAM
Brian Reese - AFAM*
Clifford Rozier - Pan African Studies*

1993
Banners: ACC Regular Season; Final Four; NCAA Champions

George Lynch - African Studies
Donald Williams - African Studies
Derrick Phelps - AFAM
Brian Reese - AFAM*

1994
Banner: ACC Tournament

Donald Williams - African Studies
Derrick Phelps - AFAM
Jerry Stackhouse - AFAM
Brian Reese - AFAM*
Jeff McInnis - AFAM*

1995
Banners: ACC Regular Season (shared); Final Four

Donald Williams - African Studies
Jerry Stackhouse - AFAM
Jeff McInnis - AFAM*
Chuck Lisenbee (team manager) - Biology & AFAM*

1997
Banners: ACC Tournament; Final Four

Vince Carter - AFAM
Antawn Jamison - AFAM
Ed Cota - African Studies

1998
Banners: ACC Tournament; Final Four

Vince Carter - AFAM
Antawn Jamison - AFAM
Ed Cota - African Studies

1999

Ed Cota - African Studies
Cori Brown (team manager) - African Studies*
(Note: Carter & Jamison in NBA offseason AFAM studies)

2000
Banner: Final Four

Max Owens - AFAM
Ed Cota - African Studies
Julius Peppers - AFAM*
Terence Newby - AFAM*
Orlando Melendez - AFAM*

2001
Banner: ACC Regular Season (shared)

Max Owens - AFAM
Julius Peppers - AFAM*
Ronald Curry - African Studies*
Orlando Melendez - AFAM*

2004

Eric Hoots (team manager) - Comm & AFAM*

2005
Banners: ACC Regular Season; Final Four; NCAA Champions

Jackie Manuel - AFAM
Sean May - AFAM
David Noel - AFAM
Melvin Scott - AFAM
Reyshawn Terry - AFAM
Quentin Thomas - AFAM
Jawad Williams - AFAM
Rashad McCants - AFAM
Marvin Williams - AFAM

2007
Banners: ACC Regular Season; ACC Tournament

Reyshawn Terry - AFAM
Quentin Thomas - AFAM
Mike Copeland - AFAM
Will Graves - (undeclared)
Deon Thompson - (undeclared)
Alex Stepheson - (undeclared)
Brandon Wright - (undeclared)

2008
Banners: ACC Regular Season; ACC Tournament; Final Four

Quentin Thomas - AFAM
Mike Copeland - AFAM
Will Graves - (undeclared)
Deon Thompson - (undeclared)
Alex Stepheson - (undeclared)
Greg Little - Communications**

2009
Banners: ACC Regular Season; Final Four; NCAA Champions

Mike Copeland - AFAM
Will Graves - (undeclared)
Deon Thompson - (undeclared)
Larry Drew II - (undeclared)
Justin Watts - (undeclared)
Ed Davis - (undeclared)
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Posted: 6/6/2014 12:16 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


what makes ND more like Virginia and not Purdue or Rutgers or any other school in the BIG that sucks in sports but is public and good academically?  Again not to mention John Hopkins who is becoming an associate member and might end up becoming a full non football member and the University Chicago which is also private.
dosch44 wrote: ND is more like Duke, Ga Tech, Virginia, Wake Forrest, ect. than any school in the Big 10 save Northwestern.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 12:21 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


Rutgers is the closest thing to being a true Public Ivy, even more so than Virginia. Not sure what size of the school, private vs public or really even academics have to do with joining a league for sports. The Big 10 is the only conference with the CIC that can make a reasonable argument about their conference raising the prestige of their academics. Is USC and Stanford not a good fit for the Pac 12 because their student bodies don't resemble Arizona State's? Is Baylor a bad fit in the Big 12 because it doesn't resemble Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. I find this argument to be full of holes.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 1:35 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


What????  Johns Hopkins and U of Chicago are certainly not part of the big10.  Where did you get that info?
ewcoold wrote: Big 10 now has Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Chicago now, add ND that would be 4 very prestigious private schools.

Want to see something shocking. African American Studies is the major with the fake classes, no show classes and automatic A's. UNC's 2005 National Championship Basketball Team had 9 players who majored in AFAM.

this is from Dukes site....

For reference:

AFAM, African Studies, and Undeclared majors in UNC basketball and the associated banners which may need to come down.

--------------

Note 1: Julius Nyang'oro arrived at UNC in the Fall of 1984.

Note 2: A few non-banner seasons were included when necessary to show additional players or team managers (for info purposes) who also majored in AFAM.

Note 3: Past UNC Basketball Blue Book releases have included the majors for all former players by class (year) dating back to 1962. This info inclusion stopped following the 2005 season.

--------------

Class of 1987
Curtis Hunter - African Studies

Class of 1988
Ranzino Smith - AFAM

(Though predating the elevation of Nyang'oro to head of the AFAM department, he was teaching AFAM classes during Smith and Hunter's educational period at UNC. The Tar Heels claim Regular Season titles from 85, 87, and 88 with them on the roster).

-------------------

Season:

1991
Banners: ACC Tournament; Final Four

George Lynch - African Studies
Derrick Phelps - AFAM
Brian Reese - AFAM*
Clifford Rozier - Pan African Studies*

1993
Banners: ACC Regular Season; Final Four; NCAA Champions

George Lynch - African Studies
Donald Williams - African Studies
Derrick Phelps - AFAM
Brian Reese - AFAM*

1994
Banner: ACC Tournament

Donald Williams - African Studies
Derrick Phelps - AFAM
Jerry Stackhouse - AFAM
Brian Reese - AFAM*
Jeff McInnis - AFAM*

1995
Banners: ACC Regular Season (shared); Final Four

Donald Williams - African Studies
Jerry Stackhouse - AFAM
Jeff McInnis - AFAM*
Chuck Lisenbee (team manager) - Biology & AFAM*

1997
Banners: ACC Tournament; Final Four

Vince Carter - AFAM
Antawn Jamison - AFAM
Ed Cota - African Studies

1998
Banners: ACC Tournament; Final Four

Vince Carter - AFAM
Antawn Jamison - AFAM
Ed Cota - African Studies

1999

Ed Cota - African Studies
Cori Brown (team manager) - African Studies*
(Note: Carter & Jamison in NBA offseason AFAM studies)

2000
Banner: Final Four

Max Owens - AFAM
Ed Cota - African Studies
Julius Peppers - AFAM*
Terence Newby - AFAM*
Orlando Melendez - AFAM*

2001
Banner: ACC Regular Season (shared)

Max Owens - AFAM
Julius Peppers - AFAM*
Ronald Curry - African Studies*
Orlando Melendez - AFAM*

2004

Eric Hoots (team manager) - Comm & AFAM*

2005
Banners: ACC Regular Season; Final Four; NCAA Champions

Jackie Manuel - AFAM
Sean May - AFAM
David Noel - AFAM
Melvin Scott - AFAM
Reyshawn Terry - AFAM
Quentin Thomas - AFAM
Jawad Williams - AFAM
Rashad McCants - AFAM
Marvin Williams - AFAM

2007
Banners: ACC Regular Season; ACC Tournament

Reyshawn Terry - AFAM
Quentin Thomas - AFAM
Mike Copeland - AFAM
Will Graves - (undeclared)
Deon Thompson - (undeclared)
Alex Stepheson - (undeclared)
Brandon Wright - (undeclared)

2008
Banners: ACC Regular Season; ACC Tournament; Final Four

Quentin Thomas - AFAM
Mike Copeland - AFAM
Will Graves - (undeclared)
Deon Thompson - (undeclared)
Alex Stepheson - (undeclared)
Greg Little - Communications**

2009
Banners: ACC Regular Season; Final Four; NCAA Champions

Mike Copeland - AFAM
Will Graves - (undeclared)
Deon Thompson - (undeclared)
Larry Drew II - (undeclared)
Justin Watts - (undeclared)
Ed Davis - (undeclared)
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Posted: 6/6/2014 1:46 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


"Public Ivy" isn't a label they came up with, and UNC is very much like Michigan.  You can get an elite education there or you can get almost no education there.

ewcoold wrote: Call themselves a "public ivy" despite fact that Ivy league schools don't give athletic scholarships while at UNC scholarship athletes don't even have to go to class.  


   

Junior DE Shilique Calhoun &
Sophomore OLB James Onwualu

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Posted: 6/6/2014 2:01 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


Hopkins joined the Big 10 as a partial member to help them start a lacrosse league. It does remain to be seen if they will jump all the way in and become more of a full member in the next few years.

espn.go.com/college-sports/sto...pkins-affiliate


Chicago was a full member of the Big 10, and a founding member at that, but reemphasized sports in the 40s and dropped to division III. They are still closely associated with the Big 10 including the CIC (committee on institutional cooperation) which is basically all the Big 10 schools plus Chicago. So while they are not currently playing on the same level of athletics as the Big 10 they are still very closely associated with the Big 10 conference and its members.

www.cic.net/about-cic/member-universities


maybe thats a stretch to call them a BIG member, but the CIC would create a closer academic bond between Chicago and ND than anything possible in the ACC. Fact remains simply for sports the size and style of the institution doesn't matter its just a sports league. If you want to get into "cultural fit" and how it will benefit ND be my guest I just don't see it from the ACC perspective. Like somehow because ND is in a league with Wake Forest and Virginia that makes everything kosher. What will these schools do for ND besides play them in sports? The only culture I see with the ACC is a culture of cheating at UNC and FSU. Meanwhile we will keep expelling guys for cheating while they encourage it.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 2:06 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


they might not have came up with it but they LOVE calling themselves it.  I live here I would know you hear that term thrown around so much its ridiculous, and it's always by UNC fans no other teams fans ever use those words.

Yes you can get an elite education there or no education, and yes same could be said for Michigan, but truth be told same can be said for nearly EVERY university in the nation.  It's always going to be what you make of it.  However there is a big difference in schools like ND / Northwestern / Duke requiring kids to actually take difficult classes, schools like Michigan that might push athletes into easy majors, and schools like UNC that literally design courses and majors around keeping athletes eligible which means you dont go to class, never talk to your professor, have your tutors write the only assignment you have to do all year.  I don't think that type of stuff goes on even at a Michigan.  Even at a school like Ohio State im sure plenty of professors dont mind giving athletes A's but thats individual classes or professors not a systematic scam of designing a whole department to keep kids eligible like what is happening at UNC.
lumbergh wrote: "Public Ivy" isn't a label they came up with, and UNC is very much like Michigan.  You can get an elite education there or you can get almost no education there.

ewcoold wrote: Call themselves a "public ivy" despite fact that Ivy league schools don't give athletic scholarships while at UNC scholarship athletes don't even have to go to class.  
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Posted: 6/6/2014 2:27 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


Purdue is closer to ND than Michigan. I'll give you Purdue and Northwestern.

It's in the set up of the university and whether they are research based or not.
ewcoold wrote: what makes ND more like Virginia and not Purdue or Rutgers or any other school in the BIG that sucks in sports but is public and good academically?  Again not to mention John Hopkins who is becoming an associate member and might end up becoming a full non football member and the University Chicago which is also private.
dosch44 wrote: ND is more like Duke, Ga Tech, Virginia, Wake Forrest, ect. than any school in the Big 10 save Northwestern.

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Posted: 6/6/2014 2:29 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


Do we honestly need to have this discussion why ND will never join the Big10? Do you know all that has transpired between ND and the Big 10?
ewcoold wrote: Hopkins joined the Big 10 as a partial member to help them start a lacrosse league. It does remain to be seen if they will jump all the way in and become more of a full member in the next few years.

espn.go.com/college-sports/sto...pkins-affiliate


Chicago was a full member of the Big 10, and a founding member at that, but reemphasized sports in the 40s and dropped to division III. They are still closely associated with the Big 10 including the CIC (committee on institutional cooperation) which is basically all the Big 10 schools plus Chicago. So while they are not currently playing on the same level of athletics as the Big 10 they are still very closely associated with the Big 10 conference and its members.

www.cic.net/about-cic/member-universities


maybe thats a stretch to call them a BIG member, but the CIC would create a closer academic bond between Chicago and ND than anything possible in the ACC. Fact remains simply for sports the size and style of the institution doesn't matter its just a sports league. If you want to get into "cultural fit" and how it will benefit ND be my guest I just don't see it from the ACC perspective. Like somehow because ND is in a league with Wake Forest and Virginia that makes everything kosher. What will these schools do for ND besides play them in sports? The only culture I see with the ACC is a culture of cheating at UNC and FSU. Meanwhile we will keep expelling guys for cheating while they encourage it.

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Posted: 6/6/2014 2:45 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 



ewcoold wrote: Rutgers is the closest thing to being a true Public Ivy, even more so than Virginia. Not sure what size of the school, private vs public or really even academics have to do with joining a league for sports. The Big 10 is the only conference with the CIC that can make a reasonable argument about their conference raising the prestige of their academics. Is USC and Stanford not a good fit for the Pac 12 because their student bodies don't resemble Arizona State's? Is Baylor a bad fit in the Big 12 because it doesn't resemble Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. I find this argument to be full of holes.

Excuse me?  You might want to speak with US News & World Report.  Whether their methodology is flawed or not, just to use it as a basis of comparison: Duke #7, ND (to show due deference to where I am) #18; UVa and USC-w #23; Purdue #68; and VPI and RU #69.  If they're a Public ivy, we're the best faculties of Bologna, Cambridge, Paris, and Trinity (Dublin) all rolled into one.

Commas can save lives!
Compare "Let's eat, Grandma!", with "Let's eat Grandma!"

Last edited 6/6/2014 3:03 PM by HoomanBeing

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Posted: 6/6/2014 2:52 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


ND will never join the BIG.  For all those saying geographically it makes sense, that's the EXACT reason we will NEVER join.  We will NOT become a marginalized school that only plays in the midwest.  We will not give up our coast to coast scheduling by forcing ourselves to play 10 or 11 games out of our 12 games in the midwest.  

STOP.

We are not regional.  We don't want to step down to the level of the BIG 10 and be in a regional conference.  The BIG can go F themselves.  They suck and get no respect as a football conference.  

JUST STOP IT with the BIG stuff.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 2:54 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 



ewcoold wrote: Again not to mention John Hopkins who is becoming an associate member and might end up becoming a full non football member and the University Chicago which is also private.
dosch44 wrote: ND is more like Duke, Ga Tech, Virginia, Wake Forrest, ect. than any school in the Big 10 save Northwestern.

JHU will only leave D-3 if that's what's required to keep their lacrosse teams in D-1.  As long as the status quo is in effect, they will keep the arrangement exactly as it is now.  As it is, they are only associate members for 5 years (as they are quick to point out on Laxpower.com) and will review the conditions existing at that time and decide whether to renew their membership.

Commas can save lives!
Compare "Let's eat, Grandma!", with "Let's eat Grandma!"

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Posted: 6/6/2014 3:03 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 



WhiskeyFoxtrot wrote: ND will never join the BIG.  For all those saying geographically it makes sense, that's the EXACT reason we will NEVER join.  We will NOT become a marginalized school that only plays in the midwest.  We will not give up our coast to coast scheduling by forcing ourselves to play 10 or 11 games out of our 12 games in the midwest.  

STOP.

We are not regional.  We don't want to step down to the level of the BIG 10 and be in a regional conference.  The BIG can go F themselves.  They suck and get no respect as a football conference.  

JUST STOP IT with the BIG stuff.
Truer words were never spoken. We need the P1G like we need leprosy.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 3:10 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


The BIG is no longer a "midwest league" with Maryland, Rutgers, Penn State is now the top football league in the northeast.  ND will have to give up something if it joins a conference should it give up midwest games our southeast games you can debate that all you want but joining the ACC full time (as opposed to joining the Big full time) will do just as much damage to a national schedule for ND as the Big will.

Someone else said you know what has transpired between the Big and ND, that was decades ago man, we need to get over that.  I guess the USA should never join an alliance with Great Britain since we knew what they did to us in 1776 and in 1812.  King George and Fielding Yost died a LONG time ago.

EDIT : also what is with beating down on the BIG football.  Outside of FSU the ACC is 2-8 in BCS games including some of the most embarrassing defeats of any major conference.  ACC is the most pathethic football conference out of the P5.
WhiskeyFoxtrot wrote: ND will never join the BIG.  For all those saying geographically it makes sense, that's the EXACT reason we will NEVER join.  We will NOT become a marginalized school that only plays in the midwest.  We will not give up our coast to coast scheduling by forcing ourselves to play 10 or 11 games out of our 12 games in the midwest.  

STOP.

We are not regional.  We don't want to step down to the level of the BIG 10 and be in a regional conference.  The BIG can go F themselves.  They suck and get no respect as a football conference.  

JUST STOP IT with the BIG stuff.
REPRESENTING: #74 OL - CHRISTIAN LOMBARD

Last edited 6/6/2014 3:15 PM by ewcoold

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Posted: 6/6/2014 3:12 PM

Re: ACC Culture / UNC 


i've thought for a long time if ND joined a conference it should be the BIG, however if you dont agree what is the fascination with the ACC, whats wrong with the Big 12 (assuming one day ND will be forced to join a conference as the P5 break away from the NCAA).  Big 12 might be better than the BIG or ACC in that you get into Texas at another level and also its a smaller league and has the best shot at staying with a 8 game conference schedule which would leave ND 2 open dates compared to 1 in the Big and 1 in the ACC.
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