One thing I believe you will see going forward is to cut down the number of scholarship slots occupied unproductively from the team standpoint, we will see kids who the staff knows aren't going to pan out as big time contributors playing early as freshmen on special teams to burn eligibility years which come back to haunt the coaching staff later on when the non-contributing player is waiting around to play a fifth year somewhere else. 

This will result in fewer kids who stick around and then transfer to play a fifth year elsewhere, because that NCAA rule is significantly affecting ND's ability to sign larger classes. 

ND absolutely owes it to every kid who signs a chance to earn their degree. It absolutely does not owe them preserving their eligibility so they can play another year somewhere else after that.

Moving forward and reading between the lines, I think you will see only offense and defense linemen routinely redshirting down the line, with skill position players on both offense and defense being thrown into the fire early to see what they have.

Not sure I understand the downside of preserving a kid's redshirt year his freshman year and then not offering him a fifth year if he doesn't pan out. Seems like a win-win to me if you don't need him on the field his freshman year.

So back to the original question. Assuming all fifth year eligible players come back next year, how many slots would ND have.  After that, which 5th year guys are unlikely to be invited back?

atlabuck wrote: Not sure I understand the downside of preserving a kid's redshirt year his freshman year and then not offering him a fifth year if he doesn't pan out. Seems like a win-win to me if you don't need him on the field his freshman year.

So back to the original question. Assuming all fifth year eligible players come back next year, how many slots would ND have.  After that, which 5th year guys are unlikely to be invited back?

I think Seattle is saying that those who have used playing time and are not likely to start would be then more likely to transfer. 

To answer your question, if all 5th years come back we are looking at 12 open scholarships. But only 5 of them will come back. So without injuries transfers 18 open. I expect ND will get 19-21. 

RT Lombard (starter)
CB Wood, S Collinsworth, and TE Welch, were all expected starters or contributors who were all hurt this year. 
As well as Chris Badger who went on a 2 year Mormon mission.

I don't know if those 5 are sure things to come back for a 5th year. We have a ton of Safetys on scholarship I doubt we bring back two 5th year guys with so much young talent at the position. Lombard is the only sure thing and if Wood is healthy and contributes (he has yet to prove himself at all) then that makes 2.

Welch also has yet to prove himself but I see our offense moving more toward the pass catching TE and the two freshman are more of that mold than him. It also depends if Koyack can show us something.

I'm also a guy that leans toward younger talent and if it had come into play only brought back Fox instead of both linebackers.

KurzND wrote:

atlabuck wrote: Not sure I understand the downside of preserving a kid's redshirt year his freshman year and then not offering him a fifth year if he doesn't pan out. Seems like a win-win to me if you don't need him on the field his freshman year.

So back to the original question. Assuming all fifth year eligible players come back next year, how many slots would ND have.  After that, which 5th year guys are unlikely to be invited back?

I think Seattle is saying that those who have used playing time and are not likely to start would be then more likely to transfer. 

To answer your question, if all 5th years come back we are looking at 12 open scholarships. But only 5 of them will come back. So without injuries transfers 18 open. I expect ND will get 19-21. 

RT Lombard (starter)
CB Wood, S Collinsworth, and TE Welch, were all expected starters or contributors who were all hurt this year. 
As well as Chris Badger who went on a 2 year Mormon mission.

KurzND wrote:

As well as Chris Badger who went on a 2 year Mormon mission.

Badger is technically entering his SO year, I believe. He retains eligibility for those two years he was gone. I'm not sure how being an EE affects his status, but at maximum he's a rising true JR.

I concur and I think Its the best route.  We do owe It to the players to let them have that chance to get their degree.  But, they also owe It to ND to move aside and let the better players play If they cant get the job done.  I dont think we should operate like SEC does but I dont think continuing to do what we have Is the right course either.  Somewhere In the middle Is just fine with me.

SeattleNDfan wrote: One thing I believe you will see going forward is to cut down the number of scholarship slots occupied unproductively from the team standpoint, we will see kids who the staff knows aren't going to pan out as big time contributors playing early as freshmen on special teams to burn eligibility years which come back to haunt the coaching staff later on when the non-contributing player is waiting around to play a fifth year somewhere else. 

This will result in fewer kids who stick around and then transfer to play a fifth year elsewhere, because that NCAA rule is significantly affecting ND's ability to sign larger classes. 

ND absolutely owes it to every kid who signs a chance to earn their degree. It absolutely does not owe them preserving their eligibility so they can play another year somewhere else after that.

Moving forward and reading between the lines, I think you will see only offense and defense linemen routinely redshirting down the line, with skill position players on both offense and defense being thrown into the fire early to see what they have.

The problem Is not only do we need them their freshmen year.  The problem Is they never reach their full potential and players younger than them end up better than they are.  Guys who stay around too long and level off too early create a log jam at the position and waste a scholly.  I love the Golics but Jake Golic was never deserving of a scholly.  That Is one scholly we could have used for the last 4 years that was tied up.  Another example would have been Crist, Mcdonald, and Ragone.  There Is three scholarships we could have used because they leveled off for whatever reason and didnt push anyone In competition.  Crist In my opinion Is the only one who earned their keep and that Is only because he was a good leader and unselfish teammate.  ND Football Isnt a charity. You get your shot but If your not going to keep up your end of the deal then you need to move along after your four years. 

atlabuck wrote: Not sure I understand the downside of preserving a kid's redshirt year his freshman year and then not offering him a fifth year if he doesn't pan out. Seems like a win-win to me if you don't need him on the field his freshman year.

So back to the original question. Assuming all fifth year eligible players come back next year, how many slots would ND have.  After that, which 5th year guys are unlikely to be invited back?