Would you be comfortable with it?

If so. How many?

We have some studs coming in on Jan. 25 and it would be hard to say no to any of them. Let alone 5 or 6 of them.

I think I could finish signing day at 88 and be comfortable.

Here's my thinking.

Bring back up to 4 fifth years. Martin, Watt, Fox, and Carlo.

That leaves us with 4 spots for recruits I belive before we hit 88.

I'm expecting 1 or 2 transfers. A QB for sure. And a medical hardship.

What are your thoughts?

yikes.
slippery slope.

We better not be over 85 unless the coaching staff already knows that certain guys are not going to be here after the spring or whatever.

JRB95 wrote: We better not be over 85 unless the coaching staff already knows that certain guys are not going to be here after the spring or whatever.

I think you can go ahead and assume that if they go over 85 then they know that there is going to be attrition.

You know, that's exactly what happens at other programs. The staff generally knows well in advance who is going to leave. It generally leaks at those other programs and it likely will here as well after or on NSD if the staff goes over, but ND keeps a tight lock on that kind of information for the most part.

FWIW, O'Malley thinks they'll sign 25 which would put them at 86. So he assumes at least one player to transfer/go on medical.

This is what happens at healthy programs.

amruther24 wrote:
I think you can go ahead and assume that if they go over 85 then they know that there is going to be attrition.

You know, that's exactly what happens at other programs. The staff generally knows well in advance who is going to leave. It generally leaks at those other programs and it likely will here as well after or on NSD if the staff goes over, but ND keeps a tight lock on that kind of information for the most part.

FWIW, O'Malley thinks they'll sign 25 which would put them at 86. So he assumes at least one player to transfer/go on medical.

This is what happens at healthy programs.

I totally agree with your statement it just makes me nervous when people starting talking about transfers or medicals like the coaching staff is waiting to see what is going to happen.  They should know not just at ND but every school.

JRB95 wrote:

amruther24 wrote:
I think you can go ahead and assume that if they go over 85 then they know that there is going to be attrition.

You know, that's exactly what happens at other programs. The staff generally knows well in advance who is going to leave. It generally leaks at those other programs and it likely will here as well after or on NSD if the staff goes over, but ND keeps a tight lock on that kind of information for the most part.

FWIW, O'Malley thinks they'll sign 25 which would put them at 86. So he assumes at least one player to transfer/go on medical.

This is what happens at healthy programs.

I totally agree with your statement it just makes me nervous when people starting talking about transfers or medicals like the coaching staff is waiting to see what is going to happen.  They should know not just at ND but every school.

Absolutely agree, and most, if not all, schools generally know who is going to leave. Rarely do things "just shake out" even though that's what outside perception is and that's how it's referred to in articles covering this stuff.

People just speculate. They (we) are the ones waiting to see what happens. The staff (particularly this one, BK is anal) has been on top of this since day 1.

It's almost an inevitability that a kid will transfer during or after spring practice. It happens every year.

playing with fire here...  tough choices. 

I for one would like ZERO lb's returning for 5th years.  I'm not sure why... I guess it was watching how incredible lost they were in the title game and how limited they were in plays they could be out there for. 

Carlo cant play in pass defense and Fox cannot play the run. 


I am more comfortable with the younger guys playing and learning on the job.  Jarret Grace, Ben Councell, Romeo Okwara, Anthony Rabasa, Prince Shembo, Danny Spond, Ishaq Williams,  AND THEN incoming freshman Jaylon Smith, Michael Deeb, Doug Randolph,

ARE YOU TELLING ME NOT 2 OF THESE GUYS CAN TAKE FOX AND CARLO'S SPOTS??????     I THINK THEY CAN EASILY.

CWND78 wrote: Would you be comfortable with it?

If so. How many?

We have some studs coming in on Jan. 25 and it would be hard to say no to any of them. Let alone 5 or 6 of them.

I think I could finish signing day at 88 and be comfortable.

Here's my thinking.

Bring back up to 4 fifth years. Martin, Watt, Fox, and Carlo.

That leaves us with 4 spots for recruits I belive before we hit 88.

I'm expecting 1 or 2 transfers. A QB for sure. And a medical hardship.

What are your thoughts?

Tim looked it up. There has been at least 1 transfer in each of the past 30 seasons before he stopped researching.

remmuh80 wrote: playing with fire here...  tough choices. 

I for one would like ZERO lb's returning for 5th years.  I'm not sure why... I guess it was watching how incredible lost they were in the title game and how limited they were in plays they could be out there for. 

Carlo cant play in pass defense and Fox cannot play the run. 


I am more comfortable with the younger guys playing and learning on the job.  Jarret Grace, Ben Councell, Romeo Okwara, Anthony Rabasa, Prince Shembo, Danny Spond, Ishaq Williams,  AND THEN incoming freshman Jaylon Smith, Michael Deeb, Doug Randolph,

ARE YOU TELLING ME NOT 2 OF THESE GUYS CAN TAKE FOX AND CARLO'S SPOTS??????     I THINK THEY CAN EASILY.

Losing programs let returning starters that are 5th years walk away. Maybe they get beat out, but you still need their experience on the roster.

So they looked bad against Alabama. How often is ND playing Alabama next year? The young guys would look bad against half the teams ND  plays next year because they have zero experience.

I really can't believe this is even a discussion point right now...

are you kidding me? 

not a discussion right now?   Its the topic of this post.  Carlo and Fox are average at best players.  To get to national title calibur... we need PLAYERS!!!   Manti like.  Bama like players.  Experience is one thing...  but average experienced players just waste scholarships.

Like having 2-3 Long Snappers.   Or 5 QB's.  or in Weis' case 4 kickers... and use the walk on!!

amruther24 wrote:

remmuh80 wrote: playing with fire here...  tough choices. 

I for one would like ZERO lb's returning for 5th years.  I'm not sure why... I guess it was watching how incredible lost they were in the title game and how limited they were in plays they could be out there for. 

Carlo cant play in pass defense and Fox cannot play the run. 


I am more comfortable with the younger guys playing and learning on the job.  Jarret Grace, Ben Councell, Romeo Okwara, Anthony Rabasa, Prince Shembo, Danny Spond, Ishaq Williams,  AND THEN incoming freshman Jaylon Smith, Michael Deeb, Doug Randolph,

ARE YOU TELLING ME NOT 2 OF THESE GUYS CAN TAKE FOX AND CARLO'S SPOTS??????     I THINK THEY CAN EASILY.

Losing programs let returning starters that are 5th years walk away. Maybe they get beat out, but you still need their experience on the roster.

So they looked bad against Alabama. How often is ND playing Alabama next year? The young guys would look bad against half the teams ND  plays next year because they have zero experience.

I really can't believe this is even a discussion point right now...

also, Carlo has looked bad in about 30 games... not just Bama.  He also looked bad with his arrest mocking police and making fun of his Italian heritage as if he was a mobster.

He has had one good hit against Wake and Zero Int's.  He doesnt get it. 

amruther24 wrote:

remmuh80 wrote: playing with fire here...  tough choices. 

I for one would like ZERO lb's returning for 5th years.  I'm not sure why... I guess it was watching how incredible lost they were in the title game and how limited they were in plays they could be out there for. 

Carlo cant play in pass defense and Fox cannot play the run. 


I am more comfortable with the younger guys playing and learning on the job.  Jarret Grace, Ben Councell, Romeo Okwara, Anthony Rabasa, Prince Shembo, Danny Spond, Ishaq Williams,  AND THEN incoming freshman Jaylon Smith, Michael Deeb, Doug Randolph,

ARE YOU TELLING ME NOT 2 OF THESE GUYS CAN TAKE FOX AND CARLO'S SPOTS??????     I THINK THEY CAN EASILY.

Losing programs let returning starters that are 5th years walk away. Maybe they get beat out, but you still need their experience on the roster.

So they looked bad against Alabama. How often is ND playing Alabama next year? The young guys would look bad against half the teams ND  plays next year because they have zero experience.

I really can't believe this is even a discussion point right now...

Remmuh who are we going to play at ILB then if we don't bring them back? 

Grace and Deeb, or Moore?

remmuh80 wrote: are you kidding me? 

not a discussion right now?   Its the topic of this post.  Carlo and Fox are average at best players.  To get to national title calibur... we need PLAYERS!!!   Manti like.  Bama like players.  Experience is one thing...  but average experienced players just waste scholarships.

Like having 2-3 Long Snappers.   Or 5 QB's.  or in Weis' case 4 kickers... and use the walk on!!

amruther24 wrote:

remmuh80 wrote: playing with fire here...  tough choices. 

I for one would like ZERO lb's returning for 5th years.  I'm not sure why... I guess it was watching how incredible lost they were in the title game and how limited they were in plays they could be out there for. 

Carlo cant play in pass defense and Fox cannot play the run. 


I am more comfortable with the younger guys playing and learning on the job.  Jarret Grace, Ben Councell, Romeo Okwara, Anthony Rabasa, Prince Shembo, Danny Spond, Ishaq Williams,  AND THEN incoming freshman Jaylon Smith, Michael Deeb, Doug Randolph,

ARE YOU TELLING ME NOT 2 OF THESE GUYS CAN TAKE FOX AND CARLO'S SPOTS??????     I THINK THEY CAN EASILY.

Losing programs let returning starters that are 5th years walk away. Maybe they get beat out, but you still need their experience on the roster.

So they looked bad against Alabama. How often is ND playing Alabama next year? The young guys would look bad against half the teams ND  plays next year because they have zero experience.

I really can't believe this is even a discussion point right now...

The OP assumes that they're coming back. So, it's not the topic of the post.

Has it occurred to you that none of the people you mention, including Grace, beat out Fox and Calabrese for the job this year? Kendall Moore has been on the team since 2010 and can't beat either of them out.

I'd rather bring back two experienced players that can help next year's team WIN, than roll the dice on a recruit. The only recruit currently left on the board that I would consider dropping Carlo for is Eddie Vanderdoes.

Rest easy good sir.  In the past kids transferred from ND because It wasnt fun In South Bend, they were home sick, or they just couldnt hack It.  Now If they transfer It will be because they are the low man on the totem pole and they dont see themselves ever starting......thats a good change.

JRB95 wrote:

amruther24 wrote:
I think you can go ahead and assume that if they go over 85 then they know that there is going to be attrition.

You know, that's exactly what happens at other programs. The staff generally knows well in advance who is going to leave. It generally leaks at those other programs and it likely will here as well after or on NSD if the staff goes over, but ND keeps a tight lock on that kind of information for the most part.

FWIW, O'Malley thinks they'll sign 25 which would put them at 86. So he assumes at least one player to transfer/go on medical.

This is what happens at healthy programs.

I totally agree with your statement it just makes me nervous when people starting talking about transfers or medicals like the coaching staff is waiting to see what is going to happen.  They should know not just at ND but every school.

Carlo Is just too slow In my opinion and doesnt have the best instincts.  For some reason I cant bring myself to say Im cool with Fox leaving.  Maybe It Is the old part of me who Is used to having LBs who couldnt cover the pass and he can.  If both leave It will not be the difference In us being In the NC or not.  If Watt and Martin didnt get 5th years though, that may be the difference.  O line Is massively important, as Bama showed In the NC game.

remmuh80 wrote: also, Carlo has looked bad in about 30 games... not just Bama.  He also looked bad with his arrest mocking police and making fun of his Italian heritage as if he was a mobster.

He has had one good hit against Wake and Zero Int's.  He doesnt get it. 

amruther24 wrote:

remmuh80 wrote: playing with fire here...  tough choices. 

I for one would like ZERO lb's returning for 5th years.  I'm not sure why... I guess it was watching how incredible lost they were in the title game and how limited they were in plays they could be out there for. 

Carlo cant play in pass defense and Fox cannot play the run. 


I am more comfortable with the younger guys playing and learning on the job.  Jarret Grace, Ben Councell, Romeo Okwara, Anthony Rabasa, Prince Shembo, Danny Spond, Ishaq Williams,  AND THEN incoming freshman Jaylon Smith, Michael Deeb, Doug Randolph,

ARE YOU TELLING ME NOT 2 OF THESE GUYS CAN TAKE FOX AND CARLO'S SPOTS??????     I THINK THEY CAN EASILY.

Losing programs let returning starters that are 5th years walk away. Maybe they get beat out, but you still need their experience on the roster.

So they looked bad against Alabama. How often is ND playing Alabama next year? The young guys would look bad against half the teams ND  plays next year because they have zero experience.

I really can't believe this is even a discussion point right now...

That's why I am not a coach!!

I get to sit back and type my ideas! Rabasa seems fast, jarret grace seems legit.




---------------------------------------------
--- KurzND wrote:

Remmuh who are we going to play at ILB then if we don't bring them back? 

Grace and Deeb, or Moore?

---------------------------------------------

I'd be fine getting to 87, letting Carlo walk, and then having some other transfer/medical hardship.  No more than that though.

KurzND wrote: Remmuh who are we going to play at ILB then if we don't bring them back? 

Grace and Deeb, or Moore?

Grace, Schmidt, Moore, Rabasa, Spond, Smith, Deeb...

SUBFANisAloser wrote:

KurzND wrote: Remmuh who are we going to play at ILB then if we don't bring them back? 

Grace and Deeb, or Moore?

Grace, Schmidt, Moore, Rabasa, Spond, Smith, Deeb...

So a walk on in Schmidt, Moore who doesn't play and now true freshmen in Jaylon Smith and Deeb? Not to mention Spond will stay at the DOG. 

We need as least Fox and if we can take Carlo.

I'd be fine with going over the 85 limit.  

If a kid just doesn't have it ND might want to move on.   I don't see why we have to keep him on the football team for 4 years.  If you had an employee who you recruited out of college because you thought he had tons of potential are you going to keep him around for 4 years?  

Now I think ND should create some kind of program where former athletes can finish their degree at ND for free.  I know Nebraska allows gives all their former players who left early free tuition so they can come back and finish their degrees.

Kicking the kid off the team and forcing him to pay for school would be something I'd be uncomfortable with.

Winning programs don't keep guys like Stockton, Jake Golic, Utupo, Heggie, Massa, and Welch on the team.

CWND78 wrote: Would you be comfortable with it?

If so. How many?

We have some studs coming in on Jan. 25 and it would be hard to say no to any of them. Let alone 5 or 6 of them.

I think I could finish signing day at 88 and be comfortable.

Here's my thinking.

Bring back up to 4 fifth years. Martin, Watt, Fox, and Carlo.

That leaves us with 4 spots for recruits I belive before we hit 88.

I'm expecting 1 or 2 transfers. A QB for sure. And a medical hardship.

What are your thoughts?