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Ridpath's book

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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:24 AM

Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


Anyone read Ridpath's book? I bought it for $3.03 for my Kindle....so if I didn't like it, I wouldn't have paid a lot....

I found it to be rather lengthy and kind of a yawner but, I don't think there was anything there that wasn't true, albeit one-sided and, if the facts are what they say they are,  it explains a lot....

Thoughts, comments?

 


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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:38 AM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


Havent read it, and wont read it.

Im sure most of it was true in his eyes, there are always two sides to every story, and I am shocked that the person whose watch it went on under, is now making money off his ability to NOT do his job very well. Boggles my mind.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:37 AM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


Marshall has always been known for skirting the rules. I had a friend who went there during Russell Lee's tenure. He lived in the same dorm that Russell did and one time he told me he was in Russell's dorm room and there was a knock on the door and an envelope was slipped under the door and Russell opened it and there was a stack of bills. Russell said "Grateful alumni"....at least that's the story I got. I had no reason to doubt it.

Hell even when I was going there were athletes who never attended class.....this crap with football being the god it has become is the reason I don't watch it anymore. If athletes (and they do) get special treatment and their degrees are handed to them or, in the case of WVU, given through special privilege or connections it taints everyone's degree who attended and worked for it. 

I'm sure Ridpath has his own version of what happened however, even John the Baptist had people who thought he was just plain crazy. It's smoke and you know what they say about smoke and fire.....

There has to be a reason why Marshall has fallen so low when other schools (including MAC schools) have gone past us and it isn't Mark Snyder or K.O. Marcum. Marshall's problem< IMHO, is that it let greed overtake its good sense. I think Hamrick is a good guy however, good guys don't do well in the atmosphere that there is in Huntington. It's a good ole boy network full of good ole boys. Always has been, always will be.

 


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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:36 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


I can assure you athletes do not get special treatment to get their degrees.

Not sure where you are getting that at.

so you are a "good ole boy" kinda guy huh.

How does that taint my degree???
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Posted: 12/28/2012 4:16 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)




"I can assure you athletes do not get special treatment to get their degrees."

Maybe it's that way now, but that wasn't always the case....let's just leave it at that.

Marshall's past is dirty and full of rules violations. To be fair, I think the NCAA has been a bully on steroids, letting the small schools take the rap for what the big schools have always done. It's a corrupt organization which makes its own rules then has the power to enforce those rules. The member schools can either go along or starve. However, that does not excuse the fact that Marshall has been overrun with egotistical coaches, overzealous out-of-control boosters, and the fans and the community who suffered from PTSD and just wanted normalcy.

Marshall could have been one of the top mid-level programs in the country if they had done things the right way instead of taking the shortcuts. 

 


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Posted: 12/28/2012 4:19 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


Marshall got caught. Marshall has done nothing that other schools havent done and dont still do.

Does that make it right? no, it doesnt, but thats not the point.

You act as if Marshall is dirty, and nasty program, and the comment about the coaches, and boosters? not sure where you are coming from with that.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 5:58 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


It's all there in its history...read if you have a mind to understand....if you won't read the past of the school, its future will never change.

the coaches and the boosters? There's a reason why coaches come and go there....and why other, smaller, more stable schools have retained coaches for years...Kansas State retained Bill Snyder, let him go, then rehired him. Florida State was virtually unknown before Bobby Bowden built a career there and created a legend. 

My point is, was and always will be....Marshall could have been one of those schools and you know it.

 


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Posted: 12/28/2012 7:11 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)



HERD4LIFE wrote: It's all there in its history...read if you have a mind to understand....if you won't read the past of the school, its future will never change.

the coaches and the boosters? There's a reason why coaches come and go there....and why other, smaller, more stable schools have retained coaches for years...Kansas State retained Bill Snyder, let him go, then rehired him. Florida State was virtually unknown before Bobby Bowden built a career there and created a legend. 

My point is, was and always will be....Marshall could have been one of those schools and you know it.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:51 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


Bobby Bowden was 40 years ago man.

KState is a BCS school and a place who had their field named for Snyder.

I have no clue what you are even getting at to be honest.

Pruett even tried to not be a legend here, he agreed to go to Houston and then got mad because they leaked it.

Has nothing to do with the boosters, or anything of the sort...what about Cincy. Their last three coaches have bolted in literally no time there, and they have money. has nothing to do with anything close to what you are talking about.
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Posted: 12/29/2012 9:43 AM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (3 votes)


Good grief don't they teach reading comprehension at Marshall anymore?

My point was (and I'm repeating myself again) is that Marshall could have been one of the top tier mid-level programs consistently year after year if they hadn't taken short cuts.

And NCAA football, unlike today's instant history, didn't begin and end in 2000. Those programs I spoke of built their programs from the ground up. I know it's difficult for the younger crowd to understand, but that's the way that things used to be done. People are different now I know this. It's an ADHD, instant gratification world today and it's especially difficult to understand the nature of patience and time and effort. If Marshall hadn't short-cutted themselves twice, they would definitely have owned the MAC even now when the MAC conference has far surpassed a watered-down CUSA....hey but it's all about the Benjamins right? Wasn't that the main reason for leaving the MAC?

Short cuts and short-sightedness killed Marshall...and you're right, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about...

 


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Posted: 12/29/2012 10:45 AM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (3 votes)


Thats the way things USED to be done is the key. Thats not the way things were done when we started really building in the early 1990's.

What short cuts did we take.

The MAC is not even closed to having surpassed a watered down CUSA.

Look at the schedules each teams play, its closer, maybe, but they havent far surpassed.

And yes, it is all about the money, and we are in MUCH better shape money wise than we were even when we were in the glory years in the MAC. We lost money in the 1999 Motor City Bowl. We made money in the 2011 St Pete Bowl.
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Posted: 12/29/2012 2:13 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (3 votes)


Ummm ...I was there throughout all that....and short cuts? We took plenty....the mops for props program was a short cut and it was all designed to take advantage of a loophole in the recruiting system. It was, according to NCAA guidelines, completely against the rules as was the over-involvement of Marshall Reynolds. 


And as far as the money is concerned, it's small consolation for going 5-7 and 6 and 6 every year. But, hey as long as the money is good, who cares if it's a winning program right?

Also, comparing money during 1999 and 2011 really isn't a fair comparison, with the money being thrown around today and the availability of cable, you can put 2000 people in the stands and still come out ahead at the end. TV deals have sweetened everyone's pot.

The MAC is ranked higher as a conference overall than C-USA who only leads the Sun Belt. Look it up.

 


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Posted: 12/29/2012 8:29 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (3 votes)


You are talking about one season man, one season. CUSA is 3 - 1 in bowl games so far, the MAC is not.
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Posted: 12/30/2012 10:14 AM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (3 votes)


Mac is 2-3 with 2 games left to go...

CUSA is 3-1 with 1 team left to go...


MAC had 7 bowl qualifiers.....CUSA had 5....



So the MAC has 2 more teams qualifying than CUSA does.....bowl results are mostly for bragging rights and smack boards rather than an indicator of team strength. 

How many times have MAC teams been on TV this year vs. CUSA teams? I don't know the total but it seems to me like every single week a MAC team has been on somewhere.,.that goes back to my argument that TV deals have sweetened the pot for everyone. It does help Marshall, in that regard, if they are on TV because Huntington is an economically depressed area with a fanbase that, historically, doesn't travel well. The CUSA deal was the only thing they could have done at the time because they needed money however, conference-wise, since CUSA was in a state of transition during the time, the conference wasn't as attractive overall as it was prior to Marshall's entry, remember, Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida were up-and-comers when they left. Cincinnati and Louisville were both brought into the Big East for their basketball reputation and South Florida was a hotbed of recruiting PLUS a media market waiting to happen. The Big East was all about media coverage in the New York/New Jersey area(which explained why Marshall was never considered--no fan support in that area). 

I know that Marshall needed the money when they moved out of the MAC (looking back, for the fans and travelling, it wasn't such a great deal and looks worse now). Marshall could have consistently built their national reputation using a winning program and, consequently, the other programs have benefited from Marshall's presence because we forced the other schools to step up (and they have). It would be nice to be in the MAC again, nice to see we're renewing old rivalries (such as Miami). Maybe that is our future. Most Huntingtonians don't look forward to trips all over the country and I can't get excited about playing Florida International. 

I think Hamrick is making good strides, he's an upstanding guy and has Marshall's best interests at heart. I wish we had had more of that earlier on, maybe the misguided series with WVU and the move to CUSA might not have happened. In hindsight, both of those hurt the program overall in spite of what revenue was brought in. We aren't competitive in CUSA as we had been in the MAC, that's my point.

 


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Posted: 12/30/2012 12:31 PM

Re: Ridpath's book Post Rating (3 votes)


This is debated all the time. 

The MAC plays on ESPN for almost nothing. 

C-USA schools are on the the networks the majority of the country does not even get for serious money. My guess is they get that money because those networks have to show a game and C-USA and the Mountain West are the only conferences they can get along with Army and Navy. I don't know the exact number but schools in C-USA get over $1,000,000 a year for playing in C-USA. in 2004 the MAC paid Marshall $34,000. in 2005 C-USA paid Marshall over $1,000,000. Thats a pretty big difference. The MAC;s revenue sharing has not improved in the last 8 years. Marshall is not winning 5 or less games a year because they are in C-USA they arnt winning because the program has been in disarray ever since 2005. Mark Snyders inability to be a head coach has put this program in the cellar and Doc learning curve has kept it there. I have seen these two men make game day coaching decisions no coach with any experience would make. They both find and found new way to lose every week.

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Posted: 12/30/2012 1:33 PM

Re: Ridpath's book Post Rating (3 votes)


The real reason Marshall is where it is isn't Mark Snyder or Doc Holliday....remember Marshall didn't win a conference title the last 4 years it was in the MAC because the MAC schools had to step up their program to keep up with Marshall.....

Mark Snyder wasn't a great head coach true, but to be fair, he wasn't left with a lot to work with. Pruett quitting on the day before practice began didn't help either. 

My point is that Marshall had a great opportunity to hire someone and retain them to build a nationally recognized program based on hard work and honesty and a great reputation and it has been squandered.  Now it's recognized as a corrupt program overall. THREE times in two different sports, Marshall has been before the NCAA on recruiting and program violations. 

As far as winning goes, the reason for that is that, in the 42 years since the plane crash, Marshall has had a total of 9 head coaches:

Jack Lengyel
Frank Elwood
Sonny Randle
Stan Parrish
George Chaump
Bob Pruett
Mark Snyder
Doc Holliday.

That's an average of a new head coach every 4.67 years. Take away Pruett's tenure (the longest of the 9) and the average drops to 1 every 4.1 years. It normally takes a new head coach 2 to 3 years to get their staff and program in place and running and so, based on the numbers, you have 1 to 2 years tops before a new head coach is hired and the process starts all over again. WVU during the same time frame has had 5.....since we like to compare ourselves to WVU, I think that's appropriate to note.  Stability and branding builds programs. Obviously what we have been doing isn't working out. 

We haven't been a consistent competitor in CUSA either. CUSA plays a more wide-open style of football which Mark Snyder couldn't judge. Was that his fault? Was he completely vetted before he came here? Ohio State plays in the more conservative Big 10. That style wasn't suited for the wide-open game of CUSA football....so the fault there is the hiring process. Remember the old saying, if you leave a loaded gun on the table and a chimpanzee picks up the gun and shoots someone, you don't blame the chimp. Whoever hired Snyder is more at fault than he is because they brought him up to a level he wasn't trained or prepared for. He's doing just fine at A & M though where he has more security and less scrutiny. 

Add to the revolving door of head coaches, the ill-advised series with WVU and the poorly-thoughtout move to CUSA (yes I will agree the money is better but it's mostly TV revenue....the same 13,000 season ticket holders come to MU every year.....the fanbase isn't growing but we still want to expand the stadium...go figure)...the fact that Marshall does a simply HORRIBLE job at marketing doesn't help either...

At this point, it is time to revamp what we are doing administratively....something isn't working..

 


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Posted: 12/30/2012 11:22 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (3 votes)


Actually TMU didn't win the MAC in their final 2 seasons not 4. We had the team both years in 2003 and 2004 to at least win the EAST. We should have definitely won the EAST in 2004. Stan Hill was good enough of a QB to win. 2003 he was plagued by injury. And the 2003 team had enough talent to beat the Big 12 Champions on the road. If not for a disastrous 7 final minutes at Akron of the 4th quarter TMU would have won the MAC EAST in 2004. Neither was a great team by Pruett standards but was on par if not better than the 2000 team.

Snyder became the head coach basically by default. Everyone TMU was pursuing except for Snyder came out and said they didn't want the job. There was nobody to give it to except Snyder. Doc Holliday was the #1 candidate at that time and is who Marcum wanted to hire but Holliday stated he wasn't interested. I almost think we would have been better off to simply promote Larry Keuck and retain all of Pruetts coaches at least through the 2005 season. The 2005 Herd team was good enough to win C-USA east if not for Mark Snyders lousy coaching.

And Bruce did you notice you left Jim Donnan off that list? He coached the Herd for 6 seasons from 1990 through 1995 with a 64-21 record with 4 appearances in the 1-AA National Championship game winning one National Championship. And was the third winning-est coach in Marshall University History behind Cam Henderson.

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Posted: 12/31/2012 7:56 AM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (3 votes)


I see that I left Donnan off but I didn't leave him out of my calculations...Marshall has still had 9 head coaches since the plane crash and the averages stay the same....

Our won-loss record, overall, since 1970 is..174 Wins vs. 226 losses....you take the '90's out of there and that record is a lot worse....

I can't believe that the fans and the AD settled for Mark Snyder.....they should have held out for someone else...I still think he was given a pile of **** and told to make a gold toilet out of it, there was a reason that everyone else turned the job down. Marshall has always traditionally been a place where coaches go and move on....that is my point as to what the problem is with the program. We should have devoted ourselves to keeping the best people NO MATTER WHAT IT COST....good people will stay loyal if you give them support, for the most part. The problem with hiring within the "good ole boy" framework is that the "good ole Marshall boys" know how it works here.

Something ain't working..

 


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Posted: 12/31/2012 12:37 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


I will disagree with you till I die. The 2005 team was the best team Snyder had. He couldn't win because of his poor ability as a head coach. Bob Pruett did not retire because there was no talent left. Bob Pruett was tired of fighting city hall.. And I truly believe he was pushed out the door for a series with uwv..

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Posted: 12/31/2012 2:31 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


If the 2005 team had been great, why weren't there head coaches falling all over themselves to take the job? That would have been a great starting point for a new head coach...

Don't blame Snyder for the collapse of the MU football program. He is what he is...you yourself said that he was the only candidate out there that would take the job. That's the same situation that Jack Lengyel found himself in when he took over the program. Coach after coach turned down the Marshall rebuilding job. Lengyel took it by default. The 2005 team was good but how do u teach them a new system when you get the program the day practice starts?

 


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Posted: 12/31/2012 4:33 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


I can't believe there's posters that would actually argue with the legend, Herd4Life.

Marshall cheated their asses off.  They got caught.

You can paint that picture anyway you like, but the program has suffered immensely over this.  Folks blame all the losses on coaches, bad calls, and bad plays by our players.  Fact is, this team isn't very good as some of you think.

I've already seen people anticipating a 10-2, 11-1 season for next year, due to the schedule.  Some of you need to understand that next years schedule contains six or seven teams that are simply better than Marshall.
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Posted: 12/31/2012 7:01 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


Lets address next year first. I don't see the schedule being any easier next year as it was this year. TMU will struggle to win 6 or 7 games. It will come down to the last several games just like it has the last several years of TMU finding enough wins to go bowling. We will have a horrible start. I very easily see us going 1-3 to open the season. Doc has not proved to me he can coach. We still don't have a d-Coordinator. The Offense will be head and shoulders ahead of the D again and we will be faced with having to out score everyone again.

Simple Herd4life. Nobody wanted the job because of the NCAA sanctions. There was a nucleus still there, there just wasn't going to be much depth. The administrations lack of making upgrades to the facilities.

Snyder is not to blame for the collapse but he was unable to do anything to stop it. His inexperience cost us at least 3 wins in 2005 and a couple more in 2006. Which would have gave TMU bowl trips in both seasons getting that much needed extra practice time.

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Posted: 12/31/2012 7:32 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


We always seem to start the season 1-3 going into conference play and wind up grasping for a 5-7 season..

I predict another losing season and no bowl...

Fact is, when other schools were taking advantage of those opportunities, Marshall was struggling because of the NCAA sanctions.....which proves my earlier point. If Marshall hadn't taken shortcuts and tried to play fast and loose with the rules and then, when they got caught doing it, tried to play the dumb "aw shucks, ah didn't know" routine, they could have been an upper mid-level team. It was like a kid who embezzles money for years from his employer and then, when he gets caught, plays the "I didn't know that was going on" thing....That's what pissed off the NCAA people...not the activity, the  playing dumb. 

That's why Pruett left, the school was going to put the clamps on him.

 


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Posted: 1/1/2013 3:32 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


When the deal in I think it was 2001 to move to C-USA for football only and the day the announcement was suppose to be made it fell through and Pruett gave a speech about needing serious upgrades. Bobby went out the next few years and almost single handed raised a bunch of money that the university went out and spent on other things than what it was for.

I think Pruetts last straw was when Joan Edwards donated money to pay the MAC exit fee, C-USA entrance fee and new turf for the stadium.. That was a sizable donation that got the stadium named after her. Bob Pruett was told after the 2004 season there was no money for new turf. Pruett shortly retired. Then soon after Joan Edwards was quoted in the Herald Dispatch telling the University she donated a million dollars for the turf and if it wasn't installed she wanted the money back. Then the money was found and the turf went in. and almost exactly a month to the day Pruett retired the series with uwv was announced. At the K-State game in 2005 Pruett was honored for his fund raising efforts and the indoor practice facility was announced and named after Bob Pruett. To this day that facility still has not been built. Yet Pruett was recognized that day for raising the money.

Then before Doc was hired it was made public Pruett wanted the job back ( www.herald-dispatch.com/sports...k-and-coach?i=0 ) and three donors were even going to pay his salary for three years and the university said no. So the university turned down a 2 million dollar donation to hire a coach that had never been a head coach and we are paying the price for that now. One of the rumors that came out was Chad Pennington and Troy Brown would have been on Pruetts coaching staff. Instead we now settle for all the uwv flunkies and all Doc's GA friends.

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Posted: 1/2/2013 3:16 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


Who cares, it's Marshall





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Posted: 1/2/2013 3:26 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


Hi George, Welcome back..

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Posted: 1/3/2013 8:15 AM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)



herd0ne wrote: Hi George, Welcome back..
goofy.gif





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Posted: 1/3/2013 10:14 AM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


I am shocked !!!!! eek

A thread about Ridpath and CT isn't here posting.

Let's Bring on The MOUNTAINEERS !!!!!!

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Posted: 1/3/2013 12:47 PM

RE: Ridpath's book Post Rating (2 votes)


He must not know about it.

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