That is two straight games the Chargers could have won. The Chargers had a 7 point lead over the Saints going into the 4th quarter and couldn't hold them back much less muster one single score to keep them in the game.

They had a 24-0 lead over the Broncos in at halftime and not only could they not score any points since they let Manning and the Broncos back in the game scoring 14 in the 3rd and a whopping 21 in the 4th.

1) It looks as though Norv took out the team inthe second have half and brought in the b-team.
2) The o-line seem to have protected Rivers in ther first half, but disappeared in the second half
3) Norv made bad play calls in the seconf half
4) Rivers made bad decisions. He run a two-minute offense and can not handle pressure. Think the opponent doesn't know that?  He needs to take lessons from Dan Fouts, who was excellent and the best QB in Chargers history at handling two-minute offenses.

Maybe we should let Rivers QB the first half and let Whitehurst handle the second half.

So, for all those who favored Rivers over Brees: Do you still feeel the same way or do you wish we still had Brees?

I never actually thought I would say this: I am worried about the Chargers/Browns game. The Chargers should win this. But after what I witness in the last two games, I am concerned.

if Rivers can somehow play like a NFL QB we should be fine........

I admit I was wrong about Brees. It turns out that he was much better than we ever saw. He was held back here with conservative play calling.

I'm having buyers remorse now. But, I was mostly excited about the potential that Rivers brought to the table.

It reminds me of quiz shows when you are asked to keep the $5000 or take the mystery prize. I wanted the mystery prize, and I thought we won by going with Rivers, but his inconsistency has been painful.

I was never strongly on one side or the other though. I mostly didn't like how the Brees vs. Rivers conversations turned into insults quite often.

ultratvfan wrote: 
So, for all those who favored Rivers over Brees: Do you still feeel the same way or do you wish we still had Brees?

Brees developed very well here and wasn't held back by the play calling. He was held back by AJ Smith.

Rivers is being killed by a lack of an oline (again, AJ Smith) and Norv's play calling which ignores the fact that we have a bad oline.

Norv is not a leader of men as Jason Cole said today explaining why things change so quickly (i.e. frequently melt down) under Norv Turner. Solid coaches can rally their teams through adversity. Norv Turner, on the evidence, simply cannot do this. TEN  consecutive missed opportunities to tie or win on game winning drives. One has to be extremely partisan not to assign a significant amount of the blame on the HC.

chargers4life wrote: I admit I was wrong about Brees. It turns out that he was much better than we ever saw. He was held back here with conservative play calling.

I'm having buyers remorse now. But, I was mostly excited about the potential that Rivers brought to the table.

It reminds me of quiz shows when you are asked to keep the $5000 or take the mystery prize. I wanted the mystery prize, and I thought we won by going with Rivers, but his inconsistency has been painful.

I was never strongly on one side or the other though. I mostly didn't like how the Brees vs. Rivers conversations turned into insults quite often.

ultratvfan wrote: 
So, for all those who favored Rivers over Brees: Do you still feeel the same way or do you wish we still had Brees?

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Brees developed very well here and wasn't held back by the play calling. He was held back by AJ Smith.

i think AJ wouldve stuck with Brees had he not played and got injured in a meaningless game

Brees development was held back by Marty

Oh, you mean like that meaningless Raiders game that Rivers played in at the end of last season? 

AJ had a call to make. And he made the wrong one. AJ had his guy drafted and we all know how stubborn AJ is when he gets attached to a player.

kiwibolt wrote:

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Brees developed very well here and wasn't held back by the play calling. He was held back by AJ Smith.

i think AJ wouldve stuck with Brees had he not played and got injured in a meaningless game

Brees development was held back by Marty

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Oh, you mean like that meaningless Raiders game that Rivers played in at the end of last season? 

AJ had a call to make. And he made the wrong one. AJ had his guy drafted and we all know how stubborn AJ is when he gets attached to a player.

 

Painfull to admit, but you're right. Ideally we'd have traded Rivers to the Cowboys (as was the rumor that year) taken our haul of draft picks and kept Brees.

That said we were led to believe Brees' injury was career ending, so it may be more on the team doctor (hold your shock) Chao, than on AJ.

The problem was that Brees was held back by personnel and coaching.

In 2004, when Rivers was drafted, we didn't know Brees as well as we did in 2006. Even then, we didn't know how good he really was until he went to a team with a dynamic coach.

Knowing now, what I wish I knew then, Larry Fitzgerald was the right pick in 2004. I wanted Ben R. in the 2004 draft though. I was shocked to see him drop all the way to PIT.

I'm not so sure that Drew Brees was necessarily 'held back'. It could be argued that his improvement was a just part of his growth pattern. In only his 3rd season as a full time starter, he made the Pro Bowl. He followed that season up with another Pro Bowl. And didn't his meteoric ascension with New Orleans coincide with time in which the NFL fully evolved into a 'passing league'? (of course, Sean Payton certainly helped)

Aloha

i dont remember that we had a first rounder as a backup last year

but whose to say Brees wasnt AJs boy too? from what i remember AJ had a lot of influence in the draft that year Butler had fallen for Vick and AJ insisted on a HOF RB and eventual HOF QB

damn we missed out!

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Oh, you mean like that meaningless Raiders game that Rivers played in at the end of last season? 

AJ had a call to make. And he made the wrong one. AJ had his guy drafted and we all know how stubborn AJ is when he gets attached to a player.

kiwibolt wrote:

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Brees developed very well here and wasn't held back by the play calling. He was held back by AJ Smith.

i think AJ wouldve stuck with Brees had he not played and got injured in a meaningless game

Brees development was held back by Marty

I think Brees is better than Rivers in handling two-minute offenses.

We knew how good Brees was at the end of 2004. That was the season he blossomed.

AJ had his guy though and syx is right. Everyone thought it was a career-ending injury. 

Chao -- and a lot of others -- were wrong about the injury. It definitely gave AJ an in to promote his guy.

Who knows how good Brees would be under Turner with no offensive line and these crazy-deep pass routes? Norv failed to utilize Sproles to his potential. 

chargers4life wrote: The problem was that Brees was held back by personnel and coaching.

In 2004, when Rivers was drafted, we didn't know Brees as well as we did in 2006. Even then, we didn't know how good he really was until he went to a team with a dynamic coach.

Knowing now, what I wish I knew then, Larry Fitzgerald was the right pick in 2004. I wanted Ben R. in the 2004 draft though. I was shocked to see him drop all the way to PIT.

HunterSTomlinson wrote: We knew how good Brees was at the end of 2004. That was the season he blossomed.

AJ had his guy though and syx is right. Everyone thought it was a career-ending injury. 

Chao -- and a lot of others -- were wrong about the injury. It definitely gave AJ an in to promote his guy.

Who knows how good Brees would be under Turner with no offensive line and these crazy-deep pass routes? Norv failed to utilize Sproles to his potential. 

Norv fails to use a lot of guys to their potential.  Which is why when people ***** about Meachem and Royal I can't do anything but roll my eyes and wonder what they'd be like in a modern day offensive scheme. 

I have a feeling our use of Ryan Mathews is not being maximized as well, the kid can do things other than run up the middle on 1st and catch a swing pass.

Sproles developed nicely under Norv, right? Isn't that how it works? When somebody played for Marty and then went onto to play twice as good somewhere else, that was your line. Why the inconsistency?

In actually, Sproles played great with us, he just wasn't utilized as much. How did our offense rank in the NFL while Sproles was playing for us?

HunterSTomlinson wrote: We knew how good Brees was at the end of 2004. That was the season he blossomed.

AJ had his guy though and syx is right. Everyone thought it was a career-ending injury. 

Chao -- and a lot of others -- were wrong about the injury. It definitely gave AJ an in to promote his guy.

Who knows how good Brees would be under Turner with no offensive line and these crazy-deep pass routes? Norv failed to utilize Sproles to his potential. 

Sproles unfortunately, was injured in 2006. He had a great 2007 season and then regressed. As soon as he went to the Saints, his yards from scrimmage increased dramatically.

It's just an indisuptable fact: Sproles was underutilized in San Diego. I suppose that's Rivers fault, too, though and that Norv bears no responsibility.

Like you said, Sproles was utilized as much under Norv as he was in NO. Why was that? Norv Turner would be the best person to answer that question.

Charger fans with an agenda often rely on those "best offense/best defense" stats, but always ignore the fact that our STs were so bad that they put the offensive and defensive units in a position to get those rankings. On a side note, it was Norv and AJ who supported Crosby and caused us to lose more games and miss the playoffs (but it did get those great rankings if that's how you keep score).

chargers4life wrote: Sproles developed nicely under Norv, right? Isn't that how it works? When somebody played for Marty and then went onto to play twice as good somewhere else, that was your line. Why the inconsistency?

In actually, Sproles played great with us, he just wasn't utilized as much. How did our offense rank in the NFL while Sproles was playing for us?

HunterSTomlinson wrote: We knew how good Brees was at the end of 2004. That was the season he blossomed.

AJ had his guy though and syx is right. Everyone thought it was a career-ending injury. 

Chao -- and a lot of others -- were wrong about the injury. It definitely gave AJ an in to promote his guy.

Who knows how good Brees would be under Turner with no offensive line and these crazy-deep pass routes? Norv failed to utilize Sproles to his potential. 

Who developed Sproles?

chargers4life wrote: Who developed Sproles?

Daren Sproles had a disasterous final 2 seasons here in San Diego, and the contract he signed was modest.

So I guess the question is, who wasn't using Sproles properly?

I don't get your desperation to defend Norv, he's done very little positive during his tenure.  The only thing I used to give him credit for was developing Rivers, and now Rivers is on his way to his 2nd 20 pick season in a row.

Look, you and many others hate Norv. Whether if he is here or not next season, I appreciate that he took the team to another level by getting us to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row and won playoff games in two of those three post-seasons.

No matter what you and others write about him, the history will show that he did more with the Chargers than any other Chargers HC has done.

I apologize for the decline of the team, but the season isn't over, and the losses are just as painful for me, the players, and the coaches, as they are for you.

chargers4life wrote: Look, you and many others hate Norv. Whether if he is here or not next season, I appreciate that he took the team to another level by getting us to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row and won playoff games in two of those three post-seasons.

No matter what you and others write about him, the history will show that he did more with the Chargers than any other Chargers HC has done.

I apologize for the decline of the team, but the season isn't over, and the losses are just as painful for me, the players, and the coaches, as they are for you.

This is a classic San Diego soft fan loser mentality.  Its okay if we're losing the weakest division in football, because 5 years ago we went to an AFC Championship game.

I can't tell you how much I don't respect that opinion.  Sorry but I find it detestable that we're going to keep sticking with a proven loser, simply because he's not quite as bad as some losers we've had in the past.  We may swing and miss on our next HC, but it won't matter because we've already missed big time on this one.

chargers4life wrote: Look, you and many others hate Norv. Whether if he is here or not next season, I appreciate that he took the team to another level by getting us to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row and won playoff games in two of those three post-seasons.

No matter what you and others write about him, the history will show that he did more with the Chargers than any other Chargers HC has done.

I apologize for the decline of the team, but the season isn't over, and the losses are just as painful for me, the players, and the coaches, as they are for you.

This isn't your fault, is it??    This is the latest stat that sticks for me:  

1.  Turner is 49-69-1 in games decided by one score or less as a head coach in his career -- the second-worst record in NFL history.
2.