my question for the forum, can Rivers get back to his old self, or has he simply regressed and on a downward spiral?

i have so many questions where is his arm strength? where are his feet mechanics in the pocket? where has his poise gone? wheres his gunslinger mentality gone? where is Philip Rivers!!

just before that fumble on the arm going forward he missed a wide open Rosario who went on a post whilst Rivers threw to the corner WTF!?

i know a lot of people will blame the Oline, but at least he hasnt been sacked 8 times in one half, Rodgers at least overcame that first half stay competitive in the second half our Oline has at least been half decent

he now has 10 failed comeback drives

can he bounce back or have we seen his best playing days already

Athletic ability aside, the guy needs a mental check quick. If he would just drop the hand flopping antics and stay focused, remain calm, play a complete game. Act like he's been in the league for 8 years - I would have so much more confidence in him turning things around.

As it stands I say no.

I think he can if he gets a competent O-line around him and a new offensive mind on the sidelines as he's pretty much tuned Norv out.

SoCalThrilla wrote: I think he can if he gets a competent O-line around him and a new offensive mind on the sidelines as he's pretty much tuned Norv out.

Agreed!

I will say this though, Rivers' passes look like they have lost a little zip. His arm strength looks diminish slightly, I think Rivers may be now on the downside of his career, and I feel poorly for him, since he deserved better than this organization.

He does seem like he has lost some arm strength, but I think the real problem is with the O-Line. When he has time he still makes good throws, but he ends up throwing off balance or off his back foot way to often because he doesn't have enough time. He doesn't get to step up into his throws very often.

We have a pocket passer with a horrid o-line. Glad to hear Norv said he'd make changes to reflect that fact, but it was pure incompetence when Turner didn't make those changes during the game.

Protecting a lead isn't necessarily "playing not to lose."  

Our CBs may suck, but that fact is magnified when your HC forces an offensive style that barely gives them time to catch their breath.

Back to the question, Rivers would be fine if this offensive line wasn't garbage. As it is, Rivers will be better when our HC calls a game without ignoring the fact that our o-line is garbage.

kiwibolt wrote: my question for the forum, can Rivers get back to his old self, or has he simply regressed and on a downward spiral?

i have so many questions where is his arm strength? where are his feet mechanics in the pocket? where has his poise gone? wheres his gunslinger mentality gone? where is Philip Rivers!!

just before that fumble on the arm going forward he missed a wide open Rosario who went on a post whilst Rivers threw to the corner WTF!?

i know a lot of people will blame the Oline, but at least he hasnt been sacked 8 times in one half, Rodgers at least overcame that first half stay competitive in the second half our Oline has at least been half decent

he now has 10 failed comeback drives

can he bounce back or have we seen his best playing days already

I understand that our OT's suck, but how do you explain not seeing open receivers and throwing to covered receivers when not pressured? Or even worse, the bad passes when he had time to throw the ball?

I have been complaining about the o-line for a long time, but I can tell when it is o-line and when it is Rivers. And currently Rivers is a bigger problem than the o-line.

Rivers looks like a freshman.

HunterSTomlinson wrote: We have a pocket passer with a horrid o-line. Glad to hear Norv said he'd make changes to reflect that fact, but it was pure incompetence when Turner didn't make those changes during the game.

+1000000000

SoCalThrilla wrote: I think he can if he gets a competent O-line around him and a new offensive mind on the sidelines as he's pretty much tuned Norv out.

Do you understand that our HC sucks, too?

chargers4life wrote: I understand that our OT's suck, but how do you explain not seeing open receivers and throwing to covered receivers when not pressured? Or even worse, the bad passes when he had time to throw the ball?

I have been complaining about the o-line for a long time, but I can tell when it is o-line and when it is Rivers. And currently Rivers is a bigger problem than the o-line.

Rivers looks like a freshman.

HunterSTomlinson wrote: We have a pocket passer with a horrid o-line. Glad to hear Norv said he'd make changes to reflect that fact, but it was pure incompetence when Turner didn't make those changes during the game.

He got us to the playoffs 3 years in a row; won playoff games 2 out of those 3 years, and then got screwed by the GM, whom suddenly forgot how to draft players.

So, no, despite pressure from the Chargers fans, I'll side with Gruden in my belief that Norv is a great play caller.

I'm open to getting another HC though, and I won't be using every loss over the next decade to claim Norv would have done better, if they decide to hire another HC.

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Do you understand that our HC sucks, too?

SoCalThrilla wrote: I think he can if he gets a competent O-line around him and a new offensive mind on the sidelines as he's pretty much tuned Norv out.

As evidenced by the sideline shot after one of his interceptions...  the camera shows a kneeling Rivers pouting when Norv comes over to talk about the play....  the shot then shows Rivers left arm motion outwardly as if to shoo Norv away.        Keep in mind Norv is essentially a QB coach/offensive coordinator.   It should be noted that River's contributed another turnover later in the game.

I absolutely believe Rivers can recover. I think Rivers has no confidence in his online, which causes him to rush and oversee Receivers and/or underthrowing them. Give him the protection and then we can analyze whether his days are over.....

Agree to disagree. Lucky for Norv supporters, they can still brag about our 8-8 2008 season as if it was an accomplishment. I mean, hell, let's put our hands together for last season then, too. That was awesome!

Anyway, if you believe Monday's play calling was "great," our views on play calling are about as far apart as Ted Bundy and Mother Theresa's views on "loving your fellow man."

chargers4life wrote: He got us to the playoffs 3 years in a row; won playoff games 2 out of those 3 years, and then got screwed by the GM, whom suddenly forgot how to draft players.

So, no, despite pressure from the Chargers fans, I'll side with Gruden in my belief that Norv is a great play caller.

I'm open to getting another HC though, and I won't be using every loss over the next decade to claim Norv would have done better, if they decide to hire another HC.

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Do you understand that our HC sucks, too?

cmon Hunter if Rivers hits Royal on the crossing pattern 6 yards in front of him instead of throwing at his feet then that drives is extended and Norvs gameplan plants another seed of doubt in the Bronco defense

if Rivers hits Meacham in stride on the deep post then its a TD like the Saints game and Norvs gameplan plants another seed of doubt in the Bronco defense

if River throws a post pass instead of a corner pass Rosario who had a step on the SS makes a big play and Norvs gameplan plants another seed of doubt in the Bronco defense

all the while the Broncos defense is getting more and more confident 

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Agree to disagree. Lucky for Norv supporters, they can still brag about our 8-8 2008 season as if it was an accomplishment. I mean, hell, let's put our hands together for last season then, too. That was awesome!

Anyway, if you believe Monday's play calling was "great," our views on play calling are about as far apart as Ted Bundy and Mother Theresa's views on "loving your fellow man."

chargers4life wrote: He got us to the playoffs 3 years in a row; won playoff games 2 out of those 3 years, and then got screwed by the GM, whom suddenly forgot how to draft players.

So, no, despite pressure from the Chargers fans, I'll side with Gruden in my belief that Norv is a great play caller.

I'm open to getting another HC though, and I won't be using every loss over the next decade to claim Norv would have done better, if they decide to hire another HC.

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Do you understand that our HC sucks, too?

What's new? 

Maybe Rivers did play great and it was just bad play calling. 

HunterSTomlinson wrote: 

...our views on play calling are about as far apart as Ted Bundy and Mother Theresa's views on "loving your fellow man."

teammates still believe in him

http://www.chargers.com/news/a...c5-c6a6486f50d7

Here's the problem.

Rivers sucks right now because of the hand he is dealt. Playoffs have eluded this team for the past two years because the supporting cast is gone. Ask the elite QBs such as Brady and Manning if they would play for the Chargers with what is there now. 

Clearly the focus has shifted from a commitment to put a winning product on the field to balancing the highwire act to the point that only the bottomline is considered. Rivers has gone from having architect drawing tools to using a box of crayons. First and foremost is the run support. Ryan Matthews is a bust. LT was kept two years too long. Michael Turner should have been kept, and... the first round draft pick used on Matthews could have been used to bolster the defense. Big mistake IMO.

There is a lack of commitment to keep a WR corps and decent Oline around a franchise QB that has some deficiencies. His lack of mobility requires decent protection - doesn't get it with consistency . His throws are not as accurate as some of the elite QBs on a regular basis. Therefore... you need big, tall bodies that can go up for the jump ball. Vincent Jackson is gone. Malcolm Floyd is NOT VJ and never will be. Antonio Gates should be traded. He is damaged goods and will never return to primetime form. Add Sproles being traded to this. He is a gamechanger. Look at the number of yards by Rivers decrease after Sproles was traded. Yards after the catch is big IMO. He really doesn't have that now. There is an ever changing cast of WR characters. There is absolutely no team chemistry. The Meachem experiment doesn't work.

The highwire act for management is over. There will be a severe drop off of fannies in seats. Changes need to be made, and it starts at the top. AJ needs to go, and so does Norv Turner. The results don't lie. Missing the playoffs for the last two years is inexcusable when there was clearly a base to build on and make a championship run. Winning franchises don't do the stupid crap that Chargers management has done. Maybe Spanos is not interested in a ring. Maybe it is all about the bottomline. Now that decision is going to bite him, and bite deep. He has a product for sale, and no one is buying it anymore. I can't blame the fanbase. The writing was on the wall for those that follow this team on a regular basis. The lack of commitment from the front office was not there. 

Some reflect on the Brees and LT days and still want that. Did they win with that? No. What happened when Brees left this franchise? A team was built around him, and they won a superbowl. You think Peyton is not going to get that in Denver? Watch!!! Brees would have never done this with the Chargers because of LACK OF COMMITMENT!!! Maybe the Manning family knew something. Obviously, Eli did and as time has shown, he has proved his detractors wrong with two SB rings to back up his hold out.

So where do you go with this? This team is going in the crapper, and Qualcomm is going to show alot of aluminum. Midseason changes need to be made in a big way. If I were in Spanos' shoes, then I would do one of two things. Either fire Norv and AJ today or trade Rivers to a team such Jacksonville or the Jets for some serious lottery picks and other benefits with the intention to rebuild from the QB down and write this season off. Most of the fans have anyway. Then when you suck again next year, you can fire Norv and AJ which is probably why they should go first. Then hire Gruden or Cowher. That creates instant fan interest. Let them build the team. 

Finally, maybe the revolving door for assistant coaches will stop if a new skipper is put in place.

Good post bigbad. I wonder what we could get in trade for Rivers.

All valid points, however, we cannot ignore how the table was initially set for Norv (that being a 14-2 team). And the mention of John Gruden elicits an interesting question - In his very first season as a head coach, Bill Callahan took a pre-built powerhouse Raiders squad all the way thru the Playoffs and to the Superbowl in 2002. Does that make him a great, or even good NFL coach? How about in comparison to Norv or the erstwhile Schottenheimer since he has obviously won more Playoff games in a single season? Obviously, he did a few things right, but if that Superbowl proved anything, it was the demonstrated difference between a good coach (Gruden) and a lousy one (Callahan). And since a single season's record does not reflect what any given coach has initially been given to work with, we should at least look at the progress made or not made throughout his tenure. To be sure, Norv has achieved some good, even great things with this Charger team. Going 13-3 in 2009 definitely qualifies as a great achievement. However, note that every other season under his tenure has shown a decline in wins from one season to the next. No, it certainly does not paint the entire picture, I fully admit. But to ignore the multitude of other recurring issues (too numerous to list) that never seem to get resolved with this team is to be guilty of the one thing that Norv has been notorious for - that is, missing the forest for the trees. Yes, Norv made the Playoffs his first 3 years in a row with the Chargers, but let's not forget that the AFC West did not contain a single opponent with a winning record during those years (heck most of the past 6 years for that matter).

Aloha

chargers4life wrote: He got us to the playoffs 3 years in a row; won playoff games 2 out of those 3 years, and then got screwed by the GM, whom suddenly forgot how to draft players.

So, no, despite pressure from the Chargers fans, I'll side with Gruden in my belief that Norv is a great play caller.

I'm open to getting another HC though, and I won't be using every loss over the next decade to claim Norv would have done better, if they decide to hire another HC.

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Do you understand that our HC sucks, too?

I'm not saying it's either/or regarding Turner and Rivers. It's definitely an "and." They both stunk it up the past two weeks. A lot of people are just really into defending "their guy" when there's really no defense for how Norv and Rivers performed the past two weeks. 

kiwibolt wrote: cmon Hunter if Rivers hits Royal on the crossing pattern 6 yards in front of him instead of throwing at his feet then that drives is extended and Norvs gameplan plants another seed of doubt in the Bronco defense

if Rivers hits Meacham in stride on the deep post then its a TD like the Saints game and Norvs gameplan plants another seed of doubt in the Bronco defense

if River throws a post pass instead of a corner pass Rosario who had a step on the SS makes a big play and Norvs gameplan plants another seed of doubt in the Bronco defense

all the while the Broncos defense is getting more and more confident 

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Agree to disagree. Lucky for Norv supporters, they can still brag about our 8-8 2008 season as if it was an accomplishment. I mean, hell, let's put our hands together for last season then, too. That was awesome!

Anyway, if you believe Monday's play calling was "great," our views on play calling are about as far apart as Ted Bundy and Mother Theresa's views on "loving your fellow man."

chargers4life wrote: He got us to the playoffs 3 years in a row; won playoff games 2 out of those 3 years, and then got screwed by the GM, whom suddenly forgot how to draft players.

So, no, despite pressure from the Chargers fans, I'll side with Gruden in my belief that Norv is a great play caller.

I'm open to getting another HC though, and I won't be using every loss over the next decade to claim Norv would have done better, if they decide to hire another HC.

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Do you understand that our HC sucks, too?