Well, I needed to vent. Rivers had some good moments last night, but for the most part, he played horrible. .2 QBR in the 2nd half says it all, and he didn't play much better in the 1st half.

For all the good years Rivers gave us, I will give him this year and next to redeem himself. As long as AJ or whoever is the GM heavily invest in the Oline next offseason. Bring in Jermon Bushod at RT and draft G/C Barrett Jones in the 1st and RT Alex Hurst in the 3rd or 4th. Hurst is only a RT. Let Green walk and resign Vasquez. Build a wall around you $96 mil QB. The best thing about B. Jones is once Hardwick retires you slide him to C and draft a G that year.

Meachem, Royal Continue to Disappoint

Philip Rivers accepted the role as fall-guy after Monday's meltdown, but he is not the sole reason the passing game has yet to soar. Offseason additions Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal have disappointed in a big way and need to start playing with more urgency if the offense is going to take flight. Read More...

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Rivers definitely played a bad game and deserves to be criticized accordingly. But I can't help but heap some blame on Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal, who have been huge disappointments. Would Rivers be playing better off if his top four targets were Antonio Gates, Malcom Floyd, Legedu Naanee and Seyi Ajirotutu? My answer is, "yes."

Rivers underthrew Meacham and missed Royal who was 6 yards crossing in front of him

MikeLombardo wrote: Meachem, Royal Continue to Disappoint

Philip Rivers accepted the role as fall-guy after Monday's meltdown, but he is not the sole reason the passing game has yet to soar. Offseason additions Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal have disappointed in a big way and need to start playing with more urgency if the offense is going to take flight. Read More...

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Rivers definitely played a bad game and deserves to be criticized accordingly. But I can't help but heap some blame on Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal, who have been huge disappointments. Would Rivers be playing better off if his top four targets were Antonio Gates, Malcom Floyd, Legedu Naanee and Seyi Ajirotutu? My answer is, "yes."

shoehater wrote: I'm certainly a Rivers fan, but I think the concern over his ability has been growing for two seasons now. Last year we made some excuses over his poor play ("It was probably an injury he's not fully revealing, etc). We fully expected to see him play well this season. And, like last year, he's not. His turnovers are becoming habitual.

Last night, even in the 24 - 0 first half I did not think Rivers looked great on offense. Rewatch the game and most can see that. His passes were floating, off-target, and mistimed. Often (though not always). Those mistakes became magnified as the game progressed and the Broncos showed up.

I no longer think we're in good hands. And it makes me sad.

 

It seems like we are running in circles here. Why do people keep on asking the same questions about Rivers decline over and over again?

How about people start explaining.....what exactly has IMPROVED for Rivers in order for him to play better? 
Dielman is gone, V.Jackson is gone, V.Brown is injured, Gaither is in and out......

What exactly has changed for Rivers for the better this year?

lider wrote: One word to describe this QB's attitude, let alone his performance...LAZY --- Seemed to be smart early on in his career, and I don't think he became dumb all of a sudden.  He just doesn't seem to care anymore.  Look at his expressions after his sloppy play turns into TD's for the opponent.  The O-Line and WRs do not seem to be prepared to support their LAZY QB.

What the hell happened to this guy .  Too many kids? 

So, you think...people with too many kids become lazy, none caring about their job? 
Dude.....!
If someone is naturally competitive, they will not just lose that attitude. Check out the video of Rivers after being approached by Norv. I absolutely believe Rivers cares about winning....

I remember seeing Meachem his rookie year in a couple NO games trying to understand why he was rated so highly, i still haven' seen much.

Besides gates on the timing routes, and some floyd, everyone else seems to need to be wide open to make a play, we miss VJs ability to take the ball on those long "lob it up there &hope for the best" passes

Still can't believe you let V-Jack go. And replacing him with Royal and Meachem? Smh.

And how about Sproles? Wait, he wasn't utilized correctly here....never mind.

I'm obviously not a Norv Turner fan but that clip of PR waving him off is BS. Act like a PRO, an adult even PR. Freakin baby.

He may not be a good HC, but he's still the HC of the team and deserves more respect than that. I lose respect for PR more and more.

LightEmUp1 wrote: I'm obviously not a Norv Turner fan but that clip of PR waving him off is BS. Act like a PRO, an adult even PR. Freakin baby.

He may not be a good HC, but he's still the HC of the team and deserves more respect than that. I lose respect for PR more and more.

I don't know, sorta looked like Norval was giving him the "I TOLD you not to do that," in a game where things just aren't going your way... that's not professional either.

One of them is gone after this season. There's no mutual respect there.

But PR was the main dude in Norvs corner at the end of last season. He sang praises when the hord wanted Norv gone. I understand their relationship is probbably better than that clip shows I just wish PR was more of a PRO than that.

IMO PR doesnt get to cast Norv out on an island if the wheels fall off. He wanted him here. He stood up for him and pitched him as our HC for 2012. Stand tall with him, fall with him.

TheRealMoose wrote:

LightEmUp1 wrote: I'm obviously not a Norv Turner fan but that clip of PR waving him off is BS. Act like a PRO, an adult even PR. Freakin baby.

He may not be a good HC, but he's still the HC of the team and deserves more respect than that. I lose respect for PR more and more.

I don't know, sorta looked like Norval was giving him the "I TOLD you not to do that," in a game where things just aren't going your way... that's not professional either.

One of them is gone after this season. There's no mutual respect there.

Amen brother

i hate that Norv is getting all the blame (although i do understand it)

LightEmUp1 wrote: But PR was the main dude in Norvs corner at the end of last season. He sang praises when the hord wanted Norv gone. I understand their relationship is probbably better than that clip shows I just wish PR was more of a PRO than that.

IMO PR doesnt get to cast Norv out on an island if the wheels fall off. He wanted him here. He stood up for him and pitched him as our HC for 2012. Stand tall with him, fall with him.

I don't think Norv gets all the blame.

But he sure as hell should get a lot of it. Calling plays repeatedly that have the pocket collapsing before the WRs are halfway through their routes. It just sucks. Rivers sucked, too. They both sucked big time the past two games. 

Glad to hear Norv say that he's going to make adjustments seven quarters too late. That's just a poor performing HC. I mean, the bar has been lowered pretty far, but we're going to have to start digging if we want to make anymore excuses for Norv Turner's poor performance.

Just imagine if a player waved off Belechick like that ... That says a lot about Rivers and Turner and the dysfunction Spanos tolerates under the Lord of No Rings Regime. 

If this team loses to the Browns, Turner should be fired the next day.

kiwibolt wrote: Amen brother

i hate that Norv is getting all the blame (although i do understand it)

LightEmUp1 wrote: But PR was the main dude in Norvs corner at the end of last season. He sang praises when the hord wanted Norv gone. I understand their relationship is probbably better than that clip shows I just wish PR was more of a PRO than that.

IMO PR doesnt get to cast Norv out on an island if the wheels fall off. He wanted him here. He stood up for him and pitched him as our HC for 2012. Stand tall with him, fall with him.

HunterSTomlinson wrote: I don't think Norv gets all the blame.

But he sure as hell should get a lot of it. Calling plays repeatedly that have the pocket collapsing before the WRs are halfway through their routes. It just sucks. Rivers sucked, too. They both sucked big time the past two games. 

Glad to hear Norv say that he's going to make adjustments seven quarters too late. That's just a poor performing HC. I mean, the bar has been lowered pretty far, but we're going to have to start digging if we want to make anymore excuses for Norv Turner's poor performance.

Just imagine if a player waved off Belechick like that ... That says a lot about Rivers and Turner and the dysfunction Spanos tolerates under the Lord of No Rings Regime. 

If this team loses to the Browns, Turner should be fired the next day.

I would not be surprised if we lose to the Browns, would you? They have a stud young running back, they have one all-pro corner, an up and coming WR corp, their QB is starting to have some good games. They just beat the Bengals and have some momentum now. Chargers have two weeks off...that may not be a good thing to be honest.

Interesting point. Losing to the Browns, while I only see as a remote possibility, would certainly make for a compelling 'straw/camel/back' scenario for most owners. Then again Spanos isn't most owners - and I'll leave it at that. Regardless, returning key pieces like Gaither, Wright, possibly VB, along with the added 'teaching' time should theoretically right the ship enough to at least take down a team like the Browns. At least, one would think.

A few other observations:

1. Meachem obviously hasn't produced, but he's at least fulfilling part of his intended role - that is, beating his man deep and drawing safety help in the process. Unfortunately, Rivers has underthrown him on ALL of his fly routes, except for the long gainer in Oakland. Unless it truly is an arm strength issue, I just don't understand why Philip continues to underthrow him. If he had corrected this mistake during the preseason (when the viewing public first noticed the tendency), Meachem could easily have 5 TDs by now, which would be a fantastic total at this point in the season.

2. A little simplistic, but could this be another indictment on the quality of the scheme (&/or QB)?
     - That Sproles production gradually dwindled with the Chargers, however, he absolutely flourished the very moment he stepped foot in Sean Payton's system.
     - That Meachem has not come close to becoming the same sort of threat he was under Sean Payton as a #3 or #4 option. I know, I know, give him time. Unfortunately, time is not on Norv's side.
     - During his only season with a semi-competent QB, Eddie Royal caught 91 passes in 15 games as Jay Cutler's slot/possession option. So far, he's on pace for 35 catches w/ Norv & Philip. Again, with the time argument, note that Royal caught 91 passes in his rookie season.

3. Rivers' technique and mechanics have clearly regressed in all facets of the game, and for this, he should get the lion's share of the blame. However, coaching is supposed to positively impact an understudy, should it not? Aside from Norv's influence (who btw, has been called a great 'teacher' by some), how much should QB coach John Ramsdell share in part of the blame? Don't most starting QBs eventually become better at play action technique, not worse? Don't they get better at recognizing when to the throw away the ball vs taking a sack? Don't they get better at screen lob touch? Shouldn't their footwork improve? Why are his backfoot throws becoming the norm, instead of the exception?

Aloha

Chargerhonk wrote:

HunterSTomlinson wrote: I don't think Norv gets all the blame.

But he sure as hell should get a lot of it. Calling plays repeatedly that have the pocket collapsing before the WRs are halfway through their routes. It just sucks. Rivers sucked, too. They both sucked big time the past two games. 

Glad to hear Norv say that he's going to make adjustments seven quarters too late. That's just a poor performing HC. I mean, the bar has been lowered pretty far, but we're going to have to start digging if we want to make anymore excuses for Norv Turner's poor performance.

Just imagine if a player waved off Belechick like that ... That says a lot about Rivers and Turner and the dysfunction Spanos tolerates under the Lord of No Rings Regime. 

If this team loses to the Browns, Turner should be fired the next day.

I would not be surprised if we lose to the Browns, would you? They have a stud young running back, they have one all-pro corner, an up and coming WR corp, their QB is starting to have some good games. They just beat the Bengals and have some momentum now. Chargers have two weeks off...that may not be a good thing to be honest.

Well, as Acee pointed out the other day, it wouldn't hurt if our WRs did a better job at coming back for the ball. 

I know I'm a broken record here, but VJ was outstanding at that. Meachem just doesn't do it, really. Should Philip be hitting him in stride? Absolutely. But heaving it up blindly and letting the WR fight for it has been part of the gameplan since Norv came on board. Now we simply don't have the personnel to do that as effectively (OL, WRs, regressed PR), but we're still trying to do it all the time.  

Aloha21 wrote: Interesting point. Losing to the Browns, while I only see as a remote possibility, would certainly make for a compelling 'straw/camel/back' scenario for most owners. Then again Spanos isn't most owners - and I'll leave it at that. Regardless, returning key pieces like Gaither, Wright, possibly VB, along with the added 'teaching' time should theoretically right the ship enough to at least take down a team like the Browns. At least, one would think.

A few other observations:

1. Meachem obviously hasn't produced, but he's at least fulfilling part of his intended role - that is, beating his man deep and drawing safety help in the process. Unfortunately, Rivers has underthrown him on ALL of his fly routes, except for the long gainer in Oakland. Unless it truly is an arm strength issue, I just don't understand why Philip continues to underthrow him. If he had corrected this mistake during the preseason (when the viewing public first noticed the tendency), Meachem could easily have 5 TDs by now, which would be a fantastic total at this point in the season.

2. A little simplistic, but could this be another indictment on the quality of the scheme (&/or QB)?
     - That Sproles production gradually dwindled with the Chargers, however, he absolutely flourished the very moment he stepped foot in Sean Payton's system.
     - That Meachem has not come close to becoming the same sort of threat he was under Sean Payton as a #3 or #4 option. I know, I know, give him time. Unfortunately, time is not on Norv's side.
     - During his only season with a semi-competent QB, Eddie Royal caught 91 passes in 15 games as Jay Cutler's slot/possession option. So far, he's on pace for 35 catches w/ Norv & Philip. Again, with the time argument, note that Royal caught 91 passes in his rookie season.

3. Rivers' technique and mechanics have clearly regressed in all facets of the game, and for this, he should get the lion's share of the blame. However, coaching is supposed to positively impact an understudy, should it not? Aside from Norv's influence (who btw, has been called a great 'teacher' by some), how much should QB coach John Ramsdell share in part of the blame? Don't most starting QBs eventually become better at play action technique, not worse? Don't they get better at recognizing when to the throw away the ball vs taking a sack? Don't they get better at screen lob touch? Shouldn't their footwork improve? Why are his backfoot throws becoming the norm, instead of the exception?

Aloha

Chargerhonk wrote:

HunterSTomlinson wrote: I don't think Norv gets all the blame.

But he sure as hell should get a lot of it. Calling plays repeatedly that have the pocket collapsing before the WRs are halfway through their routes. It just sucks. Rivers sucked, too. They both sucked big time the past two games. 

Glad to hear Norv say that he's going to make adjustments seven quarters too late. That's just a poor performing HC. I mean, the bar has been lowered pretty far, but we're going to have to start digging if we want to make anymore excuses for Norv Turner's poor performance.

Just imagine if a player waved off Belechick like that ... That says a lot about Rivers and Turner and the dysfunction Spanos tolerates under the Lord of No Rings Regime. 

If this team loses to the Browns, Turner should be fired the next day.

I would not be surprised if we lose to the Browns, would you? They have a stud young running back, they have one all-pro corner, an up and coming WR corp, their QB is starting to have some good games. They just beat the Bengals and have some momentum now. Chargers have two weeks off...that may not be a good thing to be honest.

+1

Aloha21 wrote:

3. Rivers' technique and mechanics have clearly regressed in all facets of the game, and for this, he should get the lion's share of the blame. However, coaching is supposed to positively impact an understudy, should it not? Aside from Norv's influence (who btw, has been called a great 'teacher' by some), how much should QB coach John Ramsdell share in part of the blame? Don't most starting QBs eventually become better at play action technique, not worse? Don't they get better at recognizing when to the throw away the ball vs taking a sack? Don't they get better at screen lob touch? Shouldn't their footwork improve? Why are his backfoot throws becoming the norm, instead of the exception?

Aloha

Chargerhonk wrote:

HunterSTomlinson wrote: I don't think Norv gets all the blame.

But he sure as hell should get a lot of it. Calling plays repeatedly that have the pocket collapsing before the WRs are halfway through their routes. It just sucks. Rivers sucked, too. They both sucked big time the past two games. 

Glad to hear Norv say that he's going to make adjustments seven quarters too late. That's just a poor performing HC. I mean, the bar has been lowered pretty far, but we're going to have to start digging if we want to make anymore excuses for Norv Turner's poor performance.

Just imagine if a player waved off Belechick like that ... That says a lot about Rivers and Turner and the dysfunction Spanos tolerates under the Lord of No Rings Regime. 

If this team loses to the Browns, Turner should be fired the next day.

I would not be surprised if we lose to the Browns, would you? They have a stud young running back, they have one all-pro corner, an up and coming WR corp, their QB is starting to have some good games. They just beat the Bengals and have some momentum now. Chargers have two weeks off...that may not be a good thing to be honest.

That is one thing that Norv's receivers apparently haven't been asked to do. On other teams, I see receivers scrambling to get open when the play breaks down.

Manning has more chemistry with his receivers than Rivers has with his, and yes, coaching does play a role in that. At least some of that is Rivers responsibility too though. 

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Well, as Acee pointed out the other day, it wouldn't hurt if our WRs did a better job at coming back for the ball.