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The biggest Fault in this team/organization
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Posted: 10/09/2012 1:40 PM
The biggest Fault in this team/organization
What QB wouldn't get jittery feet when he's getting pressured as much as Rivers. The problem is not Rivers.
Our organization, along with every NFL fan, has recognized that Rivers is not a mobile QB. What everybody has also recognized about Rivers is that he is one of the bestPOCKET QB's in the league.
So what's the game plan for beating the Chargers? Answer: pressure Rivers and get him moving out of the pocket. For whatever reason, Rivers is not good when he is forced to move out of the pocket, it's clear to anyone who has seen a Charger game.
So what's the game plan for helping the Chargers win? Answer: Keep him in the pocket....How do you keep him in the pocket? Answer: Your GM must invest into goodO-Lineman.
Yet we have one of the worst starting RT's in the league, a ? at LT, no depth at those Tackle positions, a weak LG in Greene, a slightly above average RG in Vasquez, and an above average C in Hardwick....... Moral of the story: if you can't credit not even one of your O-lineman as being "good", then you will have a problem in the trenches.
Yes I know other teams like Pitt and GB have been able to overcome spotty O-line play...... If you have a mobile QB that can move outside of the pocket it makes up for the pass-blocking. Unfortunately Rivers is not one of those QB's.
The only option should have been to provide Rivers with a clean pocket by investing in the O-line to allow him to pick defenses apart like we seen him do in year's past. That fault falls on AJ. (other than that huge fault, I do like what AJ has done tho)
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Posted: 10/09/2012 2:02 PM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
First off, I completely agree. Also remember, and I am not asking for brownie points, but I was one of the most vocal people this off-season after the draft and FA signings about how the Chargers are really going to have a tough time this season. Now the Chargers have improved in some areas, but as you so eloquently stated, offensive line was and still is a huge problem.
I honestly think that there are three explanations why AJ Smith doesn't invest in the offensive line.
First he might not want to ever spend a lot of money on offensive lineman.
Second, he may think that any team can train up one of these big body guys and they will eventually make it work.
Third, some scouts have the ability to find talent at all positions, some might have a niche, I think AJ as a scout might not have the capability of drafting top offensive line talent, so that some way inhibits his ability to draft them early. I know that sounds a little silly, but I know for example the Padres ex-GM Kevin Towers was awesome at finding arms but couldn't draft a position player to save his life.
With that said.....If you watched the Texans game last night, you were envious of their offensive line. It was poetic to watch their lineman open up holes, run down field, and give their QB and running back the opportunity to succeed. I have always said, a team with a top offensive line and an average QB and RB will do much better than a team with a top QB or RB and an average to below average offensive line. Top lines will make average players look really good.....What's that "saying" about the game being won in the trenches....Well, guess what....It's true! Maybe AJ missed that lesson when it was taught. You would think by now he would have figured it out.
Last edited 10/09/2012 2:04 PM by Chargerhonk
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Posted: 10/09/2012 3:10 PM
RE: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
even the best Oline in the NFL will not help against overloaded blitzes, and stop putting all the blame on the Oline, they didn't underthrow Meacham in the endzone (again) and they didnt miss Gates in the flat on a critical 3rd down in the 2nd half
teams know how to get Rivers, overload blitz and get him to panic or even worse, throw on the run
Oline is not exempt from blame but they are hardly the cause for Rivers lack of poise
even Andrew Luck stands in the face of a storm and delivers!
Mark Hunt Vs Junior Dos Santos UFC 160
#Armyof Doom
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Posted: 10/09/2012 5:09 PM
RE: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
Our O-line has been this team's biggest liability for quite some time but our GM refuses to see that. I was going to write that I think as long as AJ is the GM, we will fail to have a championship caliber O-line as AJ refuses to build the trenches; however, we have seen over the last couple of seasons a commitment to rebuilding the D-line, which I feel like he has done. Now, if AJ came right out at the end of the season and said the team's priority in the offseason would be to providing protecting for the team's biggest investment, which is PR, I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since saying that is so anti-AJ and goes against everything he stands for.
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Posted: 10/09/2012 5:46 PM
RE: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
I think some more O-line friendly play calls would help as well. Watch the Patriots run a 2 minute drill,tThen watch our 2 minute drill, I guarantee we average more than double their yards per attempt. We put a lot of undue pressure on our OTs to play nearly perfect on every snap beceause of Rivers lack of mobility.
Also I'd like to see some shred of the no-huddle offense, we take every snap down to 5-0 seconds and the defense even late in the game has plenty of time to catch their breat and reload. Our offensive scheme is just archaic. And with that said, don't take the ball out of the hands of a man averaging over 6 yards per carry!!! 2 carries in the 2nd half? Inexcusable mistake by Norv, we bailed on the run and we weren't even trailing.
I don't think Norv Turner offers anything to this franchise anymore, his usefullness has run its course.
Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters."
Last edited 10/09/2012 5:49 PM by syxwunine
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Posted: 10/09/2012 6:01 PM
RE: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
Gotta agree with most here on this one. Rivers absolutely needs a big nasty wall in front of him. Watching him roll out is simply torture. Most of us have realized this for years now and several years have been wasted. The team truly needs a top caliber OL and coach who knows how to outwit the other. A truly golden opportunity was blown on Sunday Night. The Bolts could have taken a 2 game lead in the West and could extend to 3 with a home win on Sunday. Instead, it could be tied after Sunday. In regards to the OL, again much time has been wasted ignoring it. Even an average OL is not good enough. We have the least mobile qb in the nfl and a top notch OL is sorely needed. IF AJ has a breakthru soon, he could fix it by next year with a top draft pick or 2 and a solid FA pickup. He has simply chosen not too..and it will cost us again. Here's to hoping the Bolts win Sunday and take a 2 game lead! Denver will surely be bringing the heat just like every opponent has.
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Posted: 10/09/2012 8:03 PM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
I'm curious, but what do all of you think Troy Aikman would have done behind the exact same offensive lines this team has had from 2008 on? I ask because he was just barely more mobile than Rivers, had the same offensive coaching (and thus ran mostly the same passing game), but he had the most dominant offensive line I've ever seen play this game.
And he's in the Hall of Fame because of it.
Just wondering.
---
"I've never been around a 24-year-old 12-year vet." |
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Posted: 10/09/2012 8:44 PM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
88Unbeatable82 wrote: I'm curious, but what do all of you think Troy Aikman would have done behind the exact same offensive lines this team has had from 2008 on? I ask because he was just barely more mobile than Rivers, had the same offensive coaching (and thus ran mostly the same passing game), but he had the most dominant offensive line I've ever seen play this game.
And he's in the Hall of Fame because of it.
Just wondering. That was NFL in the 90's, and he had a dominant run game to go with the great O-line. I think the problem is Norv has been running the same scheme since the Aikman days, and the league has caught up. You watch our offense and it hasn't changed a lick since 2007, every single running play is telegraphed, maybe not the location, but the defense keys the run every time they see McClain motion into the backfield and every time McMichael across the formation. Its classic power 23 or 24. And I'd bet you 90% of our competions not to the RBs happen 10+ yards down field as well, so CBs know where to line up because they know exactly when the route will break. Where as you watch the Patriots, all 3 levels are attacked, and its not like we don't have weapons like Royal and even Goodman who can expose a defense underneath with their YAC abilities. Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters." |
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Posted: 10/09/2012 9:15 PM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
It has certainly been true that neither Meachem nor Royal has been effectively used, yet. Whether that's the fault of Norvolous not using their strengths correctly, Norvolous not getting Rivers to change some of what he's taught him to do for 5 prior seasons in order to effectively use those 2 new talents, Rivers and those 2 new talents STILL not knowing what each other is doing in different situations, or something else, none of us knows.
Well, except for one truth.
Rivers sucks, as many here will quickly tell you.
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"I've never been around a 24-year-old 12-year vet." |
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Posted: 10/09/2012 10:17 PM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
I think we have a coach that is too concerned with X's and O's. If he can't tell that a player has a concussion or has pulled up lame, he has his head in the clouds or somewhere else. If you are not Dan Marino, a quarterback who cannot scramble is a dinosaur. Rivers to the right is going to kill me one of these days. You would think that our corners would be good practicing against Rivers everyday. Norv is a go- by -the- book type of boy scout leader , and that is not good enough in a league where successful teams need a coach who has his pulse on the players, and not the playbook. |
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Posted: 10/10/2012 7:12 AM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
I agree completely with the assertion that A.J. has failed to upgrade the O-line. I can't believe Clary even has a job in the league, and Green isn't much better. I've been advocating, though not as loudly as Honk, the past few years for the team to address the problem in the draft to no avail. The line, and the CB situation are critical needs.
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Posted: 10/10/2012 5:14 PM
RE: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
THIS 100% INFINITY! Please let this be the direction we begin to go on offense! syxwunine wrote: I think some more O-line friendly play calls would help as well. Watch the Patriots run a 2 minute drill,tThen watch our 2 minute drill, I guarantee we average more than double their yards per attempt. We put a lot of undue pressure on our OTs to play nearly perfect on every snap beceause of Rivers lack of mobility.
Also I'd like to see some shred of the no-huddle offense, we take every snap down to 5-0 seconds and the defense even late in the game has plenty of time to catch their breat and reload. Our offensive scheme is just archaic. And with that said, don't take the ball out of the hands of a man averaging over 6 yards per carry!!! 2 carries in the 2nd half? Inexcusable mistake by Norv, we bailed on the run and we weren't even trailing.
I don't think Norv Turner offers anything to this franchise anymore, his usefullness has run its course.
“I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people.”
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Posted: 10/10/2012 5:27 PM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
i've been saying this for the last 3 seasons, but as I keep being repeatedly told, AJ DOSN'T DRAFT O'LINE IN THE EARLY ROUNDS. Its true unfortunately  Im so frustrated about the state of our O'line but it seems that while AJ is here it will continue to be ignored, and shored up with has-beens and bench warmers. Rivers' 'window' will remain closed until he has a decent O'line, simple as that.......... |
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Posted: 10/10/2012 7:21 PM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
DownUnderBoltsFan wrote: i've been saying this for the last 3 seasons, but as I keep being repeatedly told, AJ DOSN'T DRAFT O'LINE IN THE EARLY ROUNDS. Its true unfortunately
Im so frustrated about the state of our O'line but it seems that while AJ is here it will continue to be ignored, and shored up with has-beens and bench warmers.
Rivers' 'window' will remain closed until he has a decent O'line, simple as that.......... And we won't next year as well, because CB is the biggest immediate issue and its not close, followed by RT. But IMO over the last 5 weeks Green, Vasquez, and Gaither (when available) have been more than solid, I would argue excellent, and Hardwick has been steady as usual. Clary is the gaping hole, but in his defense Norv does him no favors with our "touchdown or checkdown" offensive scheme. The biggest problem now for replacing Clary is his contract, I doubt AJ is in a hurry to show the world how damn stupid he was by drafting a RT high or signing one in FA. Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters." |
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Posted: 10/11/2012 4:26 AM
RE: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
my question can you build a team without any flaws and are there any examples of such teams
Mark Hunt Vs Junior Dos Santos UFC 160
#Armyof Doom
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Posted: 10/11/2012 7:47 AM
RE: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
kiwibolt wrote: my question can you build a team without any flaws and are there any examples of such teams Ah the "all" or "nothing" principle......always misused and misguided. Since no team is ever perfect, then it's okay to miss the playoffs the last two years, always lose games to good teams in the league, screw up a two minute drill last year in New York, wasted time outs in Chicago and other games, or stop running the ball against a team that can't stop the run in New Orleans....or better yet, a GM who is late to the party when it comes to his offensive line, despite having years and years and years to help fix it. Good analogy Kiwi....Do you teach Logic 101 at your local community college?  Using your logic, why even have a sports bulletin board where people talk sports? Since no one is perfect, no one deserves any criticism. "Hey boss....I am not coming into work today...."WHY?" Because no one is perfect, so please, don't judge me....."Okay!"
Last edited 10/11/2012 8:19 AM by Chargerhonk
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Posted: 10/11/2012 10:59 AM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
I would actually say it is close between CB and O-line. Perhaps, to your point, if there's a stud corner and a stud LT staring at us in the draft, you take the stud corner because those are harder to find, whereas good o-lineman can typically be found in rounds 2 & 3. syxwunine wrote:
DownUnderBoltsFan wrote: i've been saying this for the last 3 seasons, but as I keep being repeatedly told, AJ DOSN'T DRAFT O'LINE IN THE EARLY ROUNDS. Its true unfortunately
Im so frustrated about the state of our O'line but it seems that while AJ is here it will continue to be ignored, and shored up with has-beens and bench warmers.
Rivers' 'window' will remain closed until he has a decent O'line, simple as that..........
And we won't next year as well, because CB is the biggest immediate issue and its not close, followed by RT.
But IMO over the last 5 weeks Green, Vasquez, and Gaither (when available) have been more than solid, I would argue excellent, and Hardwick has been steady as usual. Clary is the gaping hole, but in his defense Norv does him no favors with our "touchdown or checkdown" offensive scheme.
The biggest problem now for replacing Clary is his contract, I doubt AJ is in a hurry to show the world how damn stupid he was by drafting a RT high or signing one in FA. |
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Posted: 10/11/2012 11:48 AM
Re: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
As insane as I get at the idea of spending ANOTHER 1st round choice on a corner, I agree, Thrilla. SoCalThrilla wrote: I would actually say it is close between CB and O-line. Perhaps, to your point, if there's a stud corner and a stud LT staring at us in the draft, you take the stud corner because those are harder to find, whereas good o-lineman can typically be found in rounds 2 & 3.
syxwunine wrote:
DownUnderBoltsFan wrote: i've been saying this for the last 3 seasons, but as I keep being repeatedly told, AJ DOSN'T DRAFT O'LINE IN THE EARLY ROUNDS. Its true unfortunately
Im so frustrated about the state of our O'line but it seems that while AJ is here it will continue to be ignored, and shored up with has-beens and bench warmers.
Rivers' 'window' will remain closed until he has a decent O'line, simple as that..........
And we won't next year as well, because CB is the biggest immediate issue and its not close, followed by RT.
But IMO over the last 5 weeks Green, Vasquez, and Gaither (when available) have been more than solid, I would argue excellent, and Hardwick has been steady as usual. Clary is the gaping hole, but in his defense Norv does him no favors with our "touchdown or checkdown" offensive scheme.
The biggest problem now for replacing Clary is his contract, I doubt AJ is in a hurry to show the world how damn stupid he was by drafting a RT high or signing one in FA. "What rough beast, its hour come 'round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?" |
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Posted: 10/11/2012 3:31 PM
RE: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
so i take it there has been no 'perfect' team? would it be an unrealistic expectation to have a flawless team? Chargerhonk wrote:
kiwibolt wrote: my question can you build a team without any flaws and are there any examples of such teams Ah the "all" or "nothing" principle......always misused and misguided.
Since no team is ever perfect, then it's okay to miss the playoffs the last two years, always lose games to good teams in the league, screw up a two minute drill last year in New York, wasted time outs in Chicago and other games, or stop running the ball against a team that can't stop the run in New Orleans....or better yet, a GM who is late to the party when it comes to his offensive line, despite having years and years and years to help fix it.
Good analogy Kiwi....Do you teach Logic 101 at your local community college?
Using your logic, why even have a sports bulletin board where people talk sports? Since no one is perfect, no one deserves any criticism. "Hey boss....I am not coming into work today...."WHY?" Because no one is perfect, so please, don't judge me....."Okay!" Mark Hunt Vs Junior Dos Santos UFC 160
#Armyof Doom
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Posted: 10/11/2012 7:14 PM
RE: The biggest Fault in this team/organization
Kiwi how about calling something for what it is....A dog with fleas.
Norv is a terrible head coach. This team honestly is a reflection of his coaching and lack of fire. Even his QB was seen yelling back at him on the sidelines recently. Do you think any top notch head coach would allow that? Uhm...Hell no! And it shows even Rivers doesn't respect, despite his vote of confidence for him this off-season. The whole thing is dysfunctional and the way they lost to the Saints, completely and utterly reflects it too.
Look, you come off as a very big Charger fan....and if that is the case, don't you want the best for your team? Letting Norv go and AJ Smith would be the best thing ever. This team will not go further with them at the helm. Now if you believe what I just said, come aboard, but if you think that AJ and Norv are the answer, just come out and say it.
It's really that easy....Are they or Aren't they????
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