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Troutman, got a future here?

Posted: 08/19/2014 5:55 AM

Troutman, got a future here? 


I think he has played really well in the preseason so far, so if he con tinues to advance, does he slide to LG next year, or does Watt take over Center and Troutman is RG?

http://espn.go.com/blog/san-diego-chargers/post/_/id/6295/johnnie-troutman-pushing-for-starting-job




Play every down like the season's riding on it !
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Posted: 08/19/2014 6:34 AM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


I think Troutman has done enough to make the team this year, and play backup OG either on the left or right, depending on injuries.  As for the future, I think he'll stay as a backup.

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Posted: 08/19/2014 9:32 AM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


I think Troutman makes the team.  He is young and improving.  This is really his 2nd year, right?  I wonder what happens to Clary when he returns.  Do you think he'll be a back-up at RG?
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Posted: 08/19/2014 10:22 AM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


The good thing for the Bolts concerning Troutman's situation is that if he never starts for them (other than because of injury, that is, like last year), it won't be because he isn't good enough to do so.  It will be because they have continued to bring in even better players, like they have done the last two years with Rinehart and Watt (and maybe, down the road, even Watts).

That isn't a knock against Troutman in any way.  He can play in this league.  He's already proven it.  But what the Bolts have done at those positions is exactly what a team should do - and at every position.  Continue making it even better.

The REAL question here, the one that apparently will never die, even across multiple different management teams and coaching staffs, is that with players as good as Rinehart, Watt, Troutman and even Ohrnberger, why does Jeromey Clary continue to not only stay on this team, but occupy a starting spot on it?  The ONLY reasonable answer is that it is personal.  And that just S-T-I-N-K-S!!!

---
"I've never been around a 24-year-old 12-year vet."

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  • fouts05
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Posted: 08/19/2014 12:25 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


It's troubling to me that Troutman isn't a guy we're excited about going forward.  Or hasn't blossomed or secured a position.  You bring in young guys and he certainly has potential.  And maybe he's a natural LG - but if he's a depth player we need him to be able to play both Guard positions.  I really see this as his last year even if he makes the roster.  Bottomline, he's a guy that's easily replaceable and I'd prefer Ornberger over him due to his ability to play both Guard spots and Center. 

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Posted: 08/19/2014 2:48 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


Unbeatable wrote: The REAL question here, the one that apparently will never die, even across multiple different management teams and coaching staffs, is that with players as good as Rinehart, Watt, Troutman and even Ohrnberger, why does Jeromey Clary continue to not only stay on this team, but occupy a starting spot on it?  The ONLY reasonable answer is that it is personal.  And that just S-T-I-N-K-S!!!

If someone . . . ANYONE . . . could provide a reasonable explanation for that which is highlighted in red, I would happily pay cash money for that rationale!Sports_sport04.gif
Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is!
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Posted: 08/19/2014 3:24 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


Because he's that Damn good! I do accept checks Red!


---------------------------------------------
--- redlegman wrote:

Unbeatable wrote: The REAL question here, the one that apparently will never die, even across multiple different management teams and coaching staffs, is that with players as good as Rinehart, Watt, Troutman and even Ohrnberger, why does Jeromey Clary continue to not only stay on this team, but occupy a starting spot on it?  The ONLY reasonable answer is that it is personal.  And that just S-T-I-N-K-S!!!

If someone . . . ANYONE . . . could provide a reasonable explanation for that which is highlighted in red, I would happily pay cash money for that rationale!Sports_sport04.gif

---------------------------------------------




Play every down like the season's riding on it !
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Posted: 08/19/2014 3:47 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 



viseman61 wrote: Because he's that Damn good! I do accept checks Red!


---------------------------------------------
--- redlegman wrote:

Unbeatable wrote: The REAL question here, the one that apparently will never die, even across multiple different management teams and coaching staffs, is that with players as good as Rinehart, Watt, Troutman and even Ohrnberger, why does Jeromey Clary continue to not only stay on this team, but occupy a starting spot on it?  The ONLY reasonable answer is that it is personal.  And that just S-T-I-N-K-S!!!

If someone . . . ANYONE . . . could provide a reasonable explanation for that which is highlighted in red, I would happily pay cash money for that rationale!Sports_sport04.gif

---------------------------------------------

He said a reasonable explanation, vise, not the fairy tale living inside the heads of the Clary family tongue.

---
"I've never been around a 24-year-old 12-year vet."

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Posted: 08/19/2014 4:44 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


I only laugh to keep from crying on the subject 88!


---------------------------------------------
--- 88Unbeatable82 wrote:


viseman61 wrote: Because he's that Damn good! I do accept checks Red!


---------------------------------------------
--- redlegman wrote:

Unbeatable wrote: The REAL question here, the one that apparently will never die, even across multiple different management teams and coaching staffs, is that with players as good as Rinehart, Watt, Troutman and even Ohrnberger, why does Jeromey Clary continue to not only stay on this team, but occupy a starting spot on it?  The ONLY reasonable answer is that it is personal.  And that just S-T-I-N-K-S!!!

If someone . . . ANYONE . . . could provide a reasonable explanation for that which is highlighted in red, I would happily pay cash money for that rationale!Sports_sport04.gif

---------------------------------------------

He said a reasonable explanation, vise, not the fairy tale living inside the heads of the Clary family tongue.

---------------------------------------------




Play every down like the season's riding on it !
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Posted: 08/20/2014 10:09 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


Troutman makes this team no doubt.  With Hardwick probably playing his last season either Watt or Troutman will be his replacement with the other as the starting RG and primary backup at C next year.

Clary will be on :PUP then probably move to IR if he isn't needed later in the season. He will probably be gone next year or simply as a backup OG/ROT.

The wildcard is Fluker.  Seattle exposed him and his lack of lateral quickness.  This has been the book on him from day one.  Power and speed beats him.  Every DC will know that and target that side with their rushers with power and speed.

The predraft evals of Fluker were highlighted in the SeaHawk game.  He will never be an elite OT but he could be an elite OG.

It will be interesting to see what they do with Harris and Willie Smith as well.  Harris like Fluker is an OG playing out of position at OT.  They went down this road with Clary and we all know how that has fared.

Too late to do anything with Fluker this year, but it will be interesting what they do next year if he continues to struggle against rushers who have power and speed.  IMO those are the bigger questions more so than Troutman.
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Posted: 08/21/2014 5:02 AM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


Cool, so you were just kidding about this post re: Clary, Thanks

beachbolt wrote:
All this does is guarantee Clary is on the team for at least another 2 maybe 3 years.  It makes cutting him much more difficult during that time.  All this media crap is all smoke and mirrors guys.  It's all bogus accounting to make something look better than it is and to justify keeping on the roster a marginal starter.

Had he been released with a June 1 designation they would have saved more than $2.9M this year.

So all they did was take what would have been his June 1 pro-ration dead money and use that as the new base and extended his contract with far more guaranteed money.  Bottomline is the Chargers actually increased their guaranteed money to Clary guaranteeing him a roster spot this year and next and possibily in 2016 as well dependent upon the terms.

What this means is that a promising young player won't make the team so they can keep a marginal veteran.


---------------------------------------------
--- beachbolt wrote:

Troutman makes this team no doubt.  With Hardwick probably playing his last season either Watt or Troutman will be his replacement with the other as the starting RG and primary backup at C next year.

Clary will be on :PUP then probably move to IR if he isn't needed later in the season. He will probably be gone next year or simply as a backup OG/ROT.

The wildcard is Fluker.  Seattle exposed him and his lack of lateral quickness.  This has been the book on him from day one.  Power and speed beats him.  Every DC will know that and target that side with their rushers with power and speed.

The predraft evals of Fluker were highlighted in the SeaHawk game.  He will never be an elite OT but he could be an elite OG.

It will be interesting to see what they do with Harris and Willie Smith as well.  Harris like Fluker is an OG playing out of position at OT.  They went down this road with Clary and we all know how that has fared.

Too late to do anything with Fluker this year, but it will be interesting what they do next year if he continues to struggle against rushers who have power and speed.  IMO those are the bigger questions more so than Troutman.

---------------------------------------------




Play every down like the season's riding on it !

Last edited 08/21/2014 8:56 AM by viseman61

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Posted: 08/21/2014 5:14 AM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


redlegman wrote: Unbeatable wrote: The REAL question here, the one that apparently will never die, even across multiple different management teams and coaching staffs, is that with players as good as Rinehart, Watt, Troutman and even Ohrnberger, why does Jeromey Clary continue to not only stay on this team, but occupy a starting spot on it?  The ONLY reasonable answer is that it is personal.  And that just S-T-I-N-K-S!!!

If someone . . . ANYONE . . . could provide a reasonable explanation for that which is highlighted in red, I would happily pay cash money for that rationale!Sports_sport04.gif

Clary must have a video of Spanos in a "compromising situation".

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Posted: 08/21/2014 9:35 AM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


I think the real value Clary brings was demonstrated last season when King Dunlap went down. Fluker slid to left tackle and Clary moved to right tackle. I believe Michael Harris had already went down, so we were thin. But that's a direct reflection of having no faith in our swing tackles. Willie Smith could be the key to that changing. Michael Harris seems much improved....but I'm not sure how much faith I have in him as a left tackle. So ultimately, when we are desperate, it's quite a luxury to be able to put Clarys years of experience out there at right tackle....and now that he's more affordable, it only helps his cause.

Last edited 08/21/2014 9:55 AM by 1ARTIST

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Posted: 08/21/2014 11:53 AM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


And the answer is: Clary had one, repeat ONE, very good year, and two better than average years.  Selective memory can be the ONLY answer.  Some people remember only the good years and say keep him.  Others remember only the bad, and say fetch the guillotine. Clary is versatile, not "quality versatile", but remembering ONLY the good years, coupled with his versatility is the only "logical" answer.  Of course, we're dealing with the Chargers, so sometimes logic is thrown out the window.  Here are Clary's ratings from PFF for his career.

2007....  -15.6
2008....  + 5.3
2009....   +8.9
2010....   -7.1
2011....   -28.4
2012....   +1.3
2013....   -20.8

His average rating is -8.05.  That ranks him as 56 out of 76 ranked OT's and 54 out of 81 OG's.  That is a pretty sad indictment for his performance.  If he were just average, I could see a reason for keeping him due to his experience, but I think the book is closing on Mr. Clary when he comes off the PUP list.
redlegman wrote: Unbeatable wrote: The REAL question here, the one that apparently will never die, even across multiple different management teams and coaching staffs, is that with players as good as Rinehart, Watt, Troutman and even Ohrnberger, why does Jeromey Clary continue to not only stay on this team, but occupy a starting spot on it?  The ONLY reasonable answer is that it is personal.  And that just S-T-I-N-K-S!!!

If someone . . . ANYONE . . . could provide a reasonable explanation for that which is highlighted in red, I would happily pay cash money for that rationale!Sports_sport04.gif
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Posted: 08/21/2014 7:34 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


I know it sounds crazy because Rivers is the guy at risk when Clary is in the game, but he has spoken positively of Clary's play in the past? 

Perhaps he's just being a good teammate, but maybe there is more to it.  Maybe Clary is a great guy and Philip and he are friends and their friendship has blinded Philip to some of his limitations?

This is PURE SPECULATION mind you on my part.  I have no evidence to support the suggestion, I'm just thinking out loud (well on paper --- or screen). 

I think most of us can be pretty objective about the job performance of a friend if we have friends at our work place, but there are times when a friendship can cloud that assessment a bit.   Especially if someone else is being critical of a friend when talking to you --- the tendency for most of us is to want and defend our friend to the criticism.

If River's tells the coaches that Clary is his guy and he wants him there, then I think at this point in his career he has enough leverage and collateral to make that call --- especially so long as he's putting up all Pro level numbers.

So while I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just offering an alternate possibility to the compromising pictures or information about the Spanos family that always arises when we discuss Jeromey Clary's continued presence on the roster. noidea 

But who knows really?  It's a head scratcher for sure.

 

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Posted: 08/21/2014 7:46 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


Well NY, Rivers is playing with with his own career sticking up for Clary literally, so that's weird considering those stats Sinhart posted and that fact we already know that Clary really should only be playing a Guard position as horrible as he was last the last time he tried Tackle. I think you nailed it as far as loyalty as a friend, well that friend may get you hurt because of his diminishing skills, so the coaches need to coach.




Play every down like the season's riding on it !
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Posted: 08/22/2014 9:38 AM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


As an added bit of info, Craig Watts in 33 snaps has given up zero pressures--no hits, no runs, no errors.  His performance is a tad below average ( which is 0.0).  Watts is -0.3.  He is rated as 97 out of 206 OG's.  With his potential, I would hate to see him on the PS where he will be snatched up by a team looking for a developmental olineman.  IMO Watts has more upside than Troutman, but will take a year or so of experience to surpass him.
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Posted: 08/22/2014 11:23 AM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


No runs, hits, errors? Too easyLOL I hope he gets some snaps Sunday, And you and I are on the same page on
This poaching stuff, I just wish you could protect a couple guys?!




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  • fouts05
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Posted: 08/22/2014 12:41 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


I'd asked Gelken about this and he said Watts won't likely be picked off the PS and that he's currently a developmental player.  As much as I like the kid and hope he works out - where are you reading he's rated 97 out of 206 Guards?
stinehart wrote: As an added bit of info, Craig Watts in 33 snaps has given up zero pressures--no hits, no runs, no errors.  His performance is a tad below average ( which is 0.0).  Watts is -0.3.  He is rated as 97 out of 206 OG's.  With his potential, I would hate to see him on the PS where he will be snatched up by a team looking for a developmental olineman.  IMO Watts has more upside than Troutman, but will take a year or so of experience to surpass him.
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Posted: 08/22/2014 2:19 PM

Re: Troutman, got a future here? 


PFF preseason stats.  PFF rates EACH player on EACH play.  To emphasize this, last year Rivers was "credited" with 4 sacks, 1 hit, and 1 hurry, as a defensive player.  Basically, what that means, is that it was his fault for the sacks, etc, rather than an olineman.  Perhaps he held the ball too long, turned the wrong way, or any other reason.  Watts is playing against 3rd and 4 stringers, so it's hard to judge his performance, but his FBI's are what impress me.  I watched the first game in slo-mo, and on several occasions Watts blocked two or more players, instead of just his man.  That's awareness and instincts! 
fouts05 wrote: I'd asked Gelken about this and he said Watts won't likely be picked off the PS and that he's currently a developmental player.  As much as I like the kid and hope he works out - where are you reading he's rated 97 out of 206 Guards?
stinehart wrote: As an added bit of info, Craig Watts in 33 snaps has given up zero pressures--no hits, no runs, no errors.  His performance is a tad below average ( which is 0.0).  Watts is -0.3.  He is rated as 97 out of 206 OG's.  With his potential, I would hate to see him on the PS where he will be snatched up by a team looking for a developmental olineman.  IMO Watts has more upside than Troutman, but will take a year or so of experience to surpass him.
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