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Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush...

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Posted: 07/14/2013 11:46 PM

Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


Yes I know Liuget and Reyes are beasts and they will probably get some pressure on the inside, but in a 3-4 thats not pressure you can count on. They will likely get doubled a lot, or at 300 pounds just simply not fast enough to shed and get to the QB...so lets talk about the guys who's job it is to get to opposing QBs.

Dwight Freeney - He's 33 years old, the last 2 years he's started 28 games and has 13 sacks...eh. He's also started having injury issues, and according to mini camp onlookers he appeared out of shape.  I know the guy is a future HOF'r, but most if not all elite pass rushers fall off a cliff after the age of 30.  To be honest I'm not a buyer on Freeney, I think he can disrupt a little but he's only good for 7 maybe 8 sacks this year.

Jarrett Johnson - Is 32, he's not a serious pass rusher.  He's good for 2 maybe 3 sacks.

Larry English - Don't need to tell anyone here we can't count on him. More 4-3 sets will help him, but I just think he's not a very talented athlete.

Thomas Keiser - 4 sacks in 2011, .5 last year.  More of a heavy OLB like Johnson.

Tourek Williams(R) - Worst pick of our 2013 stock, not quick, not strong, not overly productive in college...he's more of a run stopper like Johnson.

Frank Beltre(R) - Very much a Antwan Barnes type player, quick, agile, undersized, could be sneaky productive in the future, but I wouldn't count on him as a rookie or at least until he gets stronger at the point of attack.

Devan Walker(R) - Looks like Beltre, but not as quick.


This is a HUUUGE problem, one I mentioned back in March/April when I was banging the Dion Jordan drum...and now it's staring us right in the face.  We're going to be one of those idiotic teams that has to "manufacture" ways to get pressure, the way the Padres have to "manufacture" runs because they have no real fire power.  I see this being our new achilles heal, not the O-line.

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Posted: 07/15/2013 12:09 PM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


I can't disagree with any of this assessment.

As I stated elsewhere on these boards, I believe our defense will be what holds us back this season. I just don't see us improving on last season's weak ability to make a stop on 3rd downs. I don't see Pagano as the man to proactively lead our defense to the next level (meaning he won't be able to "manufacture" pressure in creative ways). An injury-prone CB in the mix doesn't help either.

I see our offense taking big leaps forward next season (if it stays healthy) but not the defense, as you stated.

Sad.
syxwunine wrote: Yes I know Liuget and Reyes are beasts and they will probably get some pressure on the inside, but in a 3-4 thats not pressure you can count on. They will likely get doubled a lot, or at 300 pounds just simply not fast enough to shed and get to the QB...so lets talk about the guys who's job it is to get to opposing QBs.

Dwight Freeney - He's 33 years old, the last 2 years he's started 28 games and has 13 sacks...eh. He's also started having injury issues, and according to mini camp onlookers he appeared out of shape.  I know the guy is a future HOF'r, but most if not all elite pass rushers fall off a cliff after the age of 30.  To be honest I'm not a buyer on Freeney, I think he can disrupt a little but he's only good for 7 maybe 8 sacks this year.

Jarrett Johnson - Is 32, he's not a serious pass rusher.  He's good for 2 maybe 3 sacks.

Larry English - Don't need to tell anyone here we can't count on him. More 4-3 sets will help him, but I just think he's not a very talented athlete.

Thomas Keiser - 4 sacks in 2011, .5 last year.  More of a heavy OLB like Johnson.

Tourek Williams(R) - Worst pick of our 2013 stock, not quick, not strong, not overly productive in college...he's more of a run stopper like Johnson.

Frank Beltre(R) - Very much a Antwan Barnes type player, quick, agile, undersized, could be sneaky productive in the future, but I wouldn't count on him as a rookie or at least until he gets stronger at the point of attack.

Devan Walker(R) - Looks like Beltre, but not as quick.


This is a HUUUGE problem, one I mentioned back in March/April when I was banging the Dion Jordan drum...and now it's staring us right in the face.  We're going to be one of those idiotic teams that has to "manufacture" ways to get pressure, the way the Padres have to "manufacture" runs because they have no real fire power.  I see this being our new achilles heal, not the O-line.

“I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people.”
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Posted: 07/15/2013 12:12 PM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


Agreed, getting off the field on 3rd down was a problem last year, and I'm not sure that problem has been addressed. 

Looking at our schedule, theres not a lot of pure pocket passers, and some decently mobile ones (RG3 eek) , so a weak rush could be painful to watch.
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Posted: 07/15/2013 3:34 PM

RE: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


Well, Ingram going down put us in a very tough position. The only way we sign a guy like Freeney. Perfect storm there.

Just too much to address in the offseason and rather than keep slugs on the roster for another year they decide to cut now and fast track the change over.

I'm ok with 95 being gone now, even if that means we struggle against the pass this year and get Imgram back and address it next year. The attitude around here needed to change #1. Personnel will follow.
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Posted: 07/15/2013 4:13 PM

RE: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 



LightEmUp1 wrote: Well, Ingram going down put us in a very tough position. The only way we sign a guy like Freeney. Perfect storm there.

Just too much to address in the offseason and rather than keep slugs on the roster for another year they decide to cut now and fast track the change over.

I'm ok with 95 being gone now, even if that means we struggle against the pass this year and get Imgram back and address it next year. The attitude around here needed to change #1. Personnel will follow.
If we had Ingram and not Freeney...I'd probably be more optimistic than I am now.

If we had both, I'd be delighted.  But I have a bad feeling Freeney is just going to mail it in this year.

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Posted: 07/15/2013 5:20 PM

RE: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


This is probably my biggest concern going into this season. Teams like the Broncos, with Manning throwing all day, could eat us alive, and probably will.

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Posted: 07/15/2013 9:39 PM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


I agree with Syx that this is our situation on paper. The ingram loss was pretty massive.

And, with hindsight, I'd even advocate for keeping Phillips though I believe his "circle the wagons/eff-the-fans/players-are-above-criticism" attitude was a big part of the losing culture the Bolts adopted.

But last year on paper, we were supposed to be stacked at WR last year. Longer drives, a non-shell-shocked offense, a young front three that pushes hard and fast into the backfield, a great run defense, taking a distracted Jammer out of the equation and Derek Cox could alleviate some of the very legit concerns Syx has.

I don't have big expectations for the upcoming season, but I believe the team will better than last year and that we're moving in the right direction.

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Posted: 07/16/2013 9:55 AM

RE: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 



syxwunine wrote: If we had Ingram and not Freeney...I'd probably be more optimistic than I am now.

If we had both, I'd be delighted.  But I have a bad feeling Freeney is just going to mail it in this year.

I'm going to agree on the one, and disagree on the other.

Yes, Ingram would have been the best option for this team.  No question.  So his loss hurts, and I agree that adding Freeney eases that loss only some.

However, I'm sticking by what I have said several times already in other threads, and that is one of the reasons why I don't see Freeney just "mailing it in" this year.  I truly believe that what Liuget and Reyes being on the field at the same time with Freeney is going to do for Freeney's effectiveness will apparently shock a whole lot of people.  I say "apparently" because of the majority of what I am reading and hearing from people about what they expect (or don't expect, to be more accurate) from Freeney this season.

Freeney in a vacuum, OK.  I wouldn't argue.

But Freeney ain't playin' in no vacuum, all by himself.

Yes, I'll stick by it.  I think a lot of people are going to be shocked wink.

Now, as I've also said, if any of those three gets hurt and misses time, then throw it all out the window.

---
"I've never been around a 24-year-old 12-year vet."

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Posted: 07/16/2013 6:13 PM

RE: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


We dont which is why I was all about Jarvis Jones in Round 1 after all the left tackles were gone and then hoping the trade up we made was for Tank Carradine not Manti Teo. We also dont have much at nose tackle and I dont know how anyone can be completely sold on the offensive line or strong safety and who knows what Ryan Mathews and Antonio Gates will bring this season.

This is what happens when you pick busts four years in a row in the first round and trade away your second round pick three years in a row. You develop holes on your roster that cant be filled in one offseason. Now all I want is a core of players showing immense improvement to give me something to be excited about in 2014 because I really cant see this team making the playoffs this year. We need Butler, Liuget and Reyes to keep getting better, Rivers to get better blocking so he can get back to playing the way he did in 2008-2010, Teo to be a Jerod Mayo type of linebacker, Mathews to show why we traded up for him and the young receivers to show potential.

In a nutshell, its not about the wins and losses for me. Its all about are we becoming serious contenders heading into 2014.

Last edited 07/16/2013 6:14 PM by toddhoopster

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Posted: 07/17/2013 12:27 PM

RE: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


I feel someone will establish themselves as a threat coming off the edge. We'll soon find out once the pads are on & they get after it. Don't sleep on Wynn either. He's a lighter DE/OLB with us...
 
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Posted: 07/17/2013 9:44 PM

RE: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 



mauibolt wrote: I feel someone will establish themselves as a threat coming off the edge. We'll soon find out once the pads are on & they get after it. Don't sleep on Wynn either. He's a lighter DE/OLB with us...
Wynn is a DT in a 4-3, a DE in a 3-4...to put him at OLB would be a laughable mistake.

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Posted: 07/18/2013 12:15 AM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


What I read about the draft pick Williams suggests he's more of a end rusher than run stopper. but I do agree our current pass rushing options seem tenuous. But as Maui was saying, we'll soon see.

I'm not 100% sure Ingram won't be back later in December too. Of course it will depend in large part on how we're doing as a team at that point.
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Posted: 07/19/2013 12:25 AM

RE: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 



syxwunine wrote:
mauibolt wrote: I feel someone will establish themselves as a threat coming off the edge. We'll soon find out once the pads are on & they get after it. Don't sleep on Wynn either. He's a lighter DE/OLB with us...
Wynn is a DT in a 4-3, a DE in a 3-4...to put him at OLB would be a laughable mistake.
DT? At what, 275 lbs or so? Really? We'll agree to disagree there. Merriman was about 265 coming off the edge. DE is his position with us. He's a guy I feel good about in passing situations.
 
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Posted: 07/19/2013 5:45 PM

RE: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 



mauibolt wrote: 
DT? At what, 275 lbs or so? Really? We'll agree to disagree there. Merriman was about 265 coming off the edge. DE is his position with us. He's a guy I feel good about in passing situations.
There is no agree to disagree, the guy has never played a single snap standing up in the NFL or in college. He's 285 minimum, he played 3 tech defensive tackle last year, and 5 tech DE for Green Bay.  He's doesn't have the athleticism to move to OLB.

Last edited 07/19/2013 5:46 PM by syxwunine

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Posted: 07/19/2013 7:07 PM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


I'm not worried about the pass rush. We'll get at least two sacks a game. Anybody want to make a sig bet that it will be less?
Two words: Offensive Line!
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Posted: 07/19/2013 8:00 PM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 



chargers4life wrote: I'm not worried about the pass rush. We'll get at least two sacks a game. Anybody want to make a sig bet that it will be less?
You're saying we'll get 32 sacks this season?  (Which would probably rank us around 20th in the league, not very impressive)

Or 2 sacks minimum in every game?

Last edited 07/19/2013 8:03 PM by syxwunine

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Posted: 07/19/2013 8:12 PM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


Hmmm. I can't say two sacks minimum per game. However, 2 sacks in average, per game, putting us 20th in the league, would prove the title of the thread wrong: "we have no edge pass rush."
syxwunine wrote:
chargers4life wrote: I'm not worried about the pass rush. We'll get at least two sacks a game. Anybody want to make a sig bet that it will be less?
You're saying we'll get 32 sacks this season?  (Which would probably rank us around 20th in the league, not very impressive)

Or 2 sacks minimum in every game?
Two words: Offensive Line!
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Posted: 07/19/2013 11:08 PM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


I expect the Dline to be more formidable this year.  Reyes and Leuigit coming into their own ought to give us more inside push.   The linebackers....now that is where the questions come in.   Man by man comparisons wont make much sense right now until we know what talent Telesco has brought in.    

Big Melvin's loss will be felt but when it comes to it his disruptive run support and special teams play may be missed more than his pass rush.

Where to look for help:

Freeney-   I am not as down on Freeney as some of you are.  I think he can contribute in a big way and may feel he has something to prove.   He is a pass rush specialist and will play on grass this season.  He did not have the kind of Dline support just described in Indy last year.  Combined with injury and a new system his numbers were not to standard.  I believe he will come out prepared to make a mark here in Bolts and give us double digit sacks.

Draft-  Teo alone is an upgrade over Spikes who had gotten a step slow.   Mantai can shoot gaps and get pressure.    Tourek Williams is touted as a high energy guy with quick feet.  He could become the outside pass rush specialist we are looking for.

Free Agent-   The lad from Carolina (Keuchly?) intrigues me.  He has the frame , size and strength to also become an outside rushing threat.   This was one of Telesco's first moves.  Perhaps he will become a find.

The cup is half full .
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Posted: 07/20/2013 8:32 AM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 


Bolts Notebook: Training Camp Primer

With training camp days away, we run down a list of things to watch for at Chargers Park. From Mike McCoy’s new offense to concerns on defense to the annual positional battles, we analyze the key issues Bolts Backers should study. Read More...



The young pass rushers will be under the spotlight once training camp kicks off. One player I'm apparently higher on than most is Tourek Williams. He doesn't have elite athleticism, but he is relentless in pursuit and will pick up a handful of hustle sacks. The real key will be Larry English. He should be an eight-sack player if he can stay on the field and put it all together.
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Posted: 07/20/2013 10:30 AM

Re: Lets talk facts, we have no edge pass rush... 



MikeLombardo wrote: The real key will be Larry English. He should be an eight-sack player if he can stay on the field and put it all together.

And the other team decides to block him with a cheerleader.

Which, on second thought, might work, anyway.

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"I've never been around a 24-year-old 12-year vet."

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