With some numbers coming out on Andre Smith's and Jake Longs expectations, we're looking at about 9 to 11 million/year to land a TOP free agent OT.

Is this an option for us?

Nothing wrong with demanding.  It whether or not a team bites.  Jake is looking for 11 at LT and Smitty is looking for 9 at RT.  Way to set the market asking price.  


Of the two, Smitty is in the better seat to be re-signed by his current team at that asking price.  Miami can't afford 11 mil/season.  SD likely can't afford 11 per either but that's not to say they can't come away with a solid backup plan.  Not to mention the market will be set not by their asking price but the teams willingness to pay that toll. 


Personally I'd looking into just one OT and two OG's in the FA market.  With the rumor that the Bills will allow Levitre to test the market, the Bolts could likely come away with say Levitre (LG), Mckinnie or Ryan Harris (OT) and Boothe (experience at both LG and RG).

Thisfrickinguy wrote: Nothing wrong with demanding.  It whether or not a team bites.  Jake is looking for 11 at LT and Smitty is looking for 9 at RT.  Way to set the market asking price.  


Of the two, Smitty is in the better seat to be re-signed by his current team at that asking price.  Miami can't afford 11 mil/season.  SD likely can't afford 11 per either but that's not to say they can't come away with a solid backup plan.  


Personally I'd looking into just one OT and two OG's in the FA market.  With the rumor that the Bills will allow Levitre to test the market, the Bolts could likely come away with say Levitre (LG), Mckinnie or Ryan Harris (OT) and Boothe (experience at both LG and RG).

If the Chargers can sign two vet guards in free agency and get top OT at # 11.....it would be unbelievable. But....don't you believe the Chargers need another OT? I'd rather sign one veteran OT and one guard in free agency and draft top OT. What do you think? Good stuff...as usual bro!

At the moment no, but after we release Garay, McClain, Clary, McMichael and most importantly Gaither as the designated June 1st cut (where we can move his cap hit to '14) we probably could as we'd be around $20M in open space  I could also see Royal getting the axe saving us another $1.5M simply because we're going to owe him $6M next year if we keep him around.

Not to mention the possibility that Rivers and Weddle may restructure, that changes the game quite a bit.

I no logner think its unreasonable to land Long, it may cost us in another area, but it takes the handcuffs off our draft.

As I've said elsewhere, I'd much rather spend the one large chunk of my free agent money on a top corner instead of a lineman, and eliminate the need to draft a corner in the 2nd round or later (since they're likely not going to draft one at 11).  That opens up the draft to rebuild the line with what is a LOAD of talent there in this draft class, and even add a couple of guys at other positions of need (inside linebacker, running back, safety, receiver) with what are good rounds for those positions in the 3rd - 5th.

I pretty much agree with your entire post.

Now that begs the question though, can we afford a guy like Adam Jones or Toler?

88Unbeatable82 wrote: As I've said elsewhere, I'd much rather spend the one large chunk of my free agent money on a top corner instead of a lineman, and eliminate the need to draft a corner in the 2nd round or later (since they're likely not going to draft one at 11).  That opens up the draft to rebuild the line with what is a LOAD of talent there in this draft class, and even add a couple of guys at other positions of need (inside linebacker, running back, safety, receiver) with what are good rounds for those positions in the 3rd - 5th.

I like your ideas and think you can answer your own question.  Do you think we need another OT?   What we have right now are Gaither- Harris and Clary.   Hell yes we need another  two OTs.  Draft one and pick up an OT FA because I would like the Chargers to get rid of the three stooges that I just named!!!!!  If we keep Green and Vaz and draft another guard or get another FA OG we should be good.   How about  Lane
Johnson/Levitre/Hardwick/Green/Vollmer or Smith?    

Chargerhonk wrote:

Thisfrickinguy wrote: Nothing wrong with demanding.  It whether or not a team bites.  Jake is looking for 11 at LT and Smitty is looking for 9 at RT.  Way to set the market asking price.  


Of the two, Smitty is in the better seat to be re-signed by his current team at that asking price.  Miami can't afford 11 mil/season.  SD likely can't afford 11 per either but that's not to say they can't come away with a solid backup plan.  


Personally I'd looking into just one OT and two OG's in the FA market.  With the rumor that the Bills will allow Levitre to test the market, the Bolts could likely come away with say Levitre (LG), Mckinnie or Ryan Harris (OT) and Boothe (experience at both LG and RG).

If the Chargers can sign two vet guards in free agency and get top OT at # 11.....it would be unbelievable. But....don't you believe the Chargers need another OT? I'd rather sign one veteran OT and one guard in free agency and draft top OT. What do you think? Good stuff...as usual bro!

Chargerhonk wrote:

Thisfrickinguy wrote: Nothing wrong with demanding.  It whether or not a team bites.  Jake is looking for 11 at LT and Smitty is looking for 9 at RT.  Way to set the market asking price.  


Of the two, Smitty is in the better seat to be re-signed by his current team at that asking price.  Miami can't afford 11 mil/season.  SD likely can't afford 11 per either but that's not to say they can't come away with a solid backup plan.  


Personally I'd looking into just one OT and two OG's in the FA market.  With the rumor that the Bills will allow Levitre to test the market, the Bolts could likely come away with say Levitre (LG), Mckinnie or Ryan Harris (OT) and Boothe (experience at both LG and RG).

If the Chargers can sign two vet guards in free agency and get top OT at # 11.....it would be unbelievable. But....don't you believe the Chargers need another OT? I'd rather sign one veteran OT and one guard in free agency and draft top OT. What do you think? Good stuff...as usual bro!

You're going to make me give away my post combine update draft Honk.  LOL. 

Basically my theory here is to use the asking price of LT Long and RT Smith to gauge the price tag of a top tier OG in this years FA class.  With 11 and 9 for opposite bookends I would figure the asking price of the highest OG would be somewher in the 4-7 mil range.  That obviously would be for Levitre and well worth say 6 mil per year to be a starter for the next 5 years.  Boothe would go somewhere in the same range but not as high as Vasquez IMHO and could very easily be a starter for the next 3 years giving Troutman time to heal and develop at RG.  And by no means do I think for a second that Troutman is a LG.  

He was never mobile nor asked to be for Penn State as that's not been his forte.  I don't how the Bolts would just turn around and ask him to all of a sudden be the mobile OG now.  

Anyways, before going off on that tangent.  My scenario covers the exit of one Louis Vasquez as Boothe would replace Louis at RG in order to figure out what they have in Troutman.  Levitre is the starting LG that only really needs a backup OG.  Dare I give away my update draft by saying someone that could not only play LG but double as an OC if needed. 

Now this leaves the OT position.  I don't see Clary as the guy at his price tag so a release is in order unless he's willing to lower his price and likely be happy with the fact that we are going to be looking for his replacement as a "starter".  I don't think Clary's pride would go for that.  Slash his paycheck yes, but paycheck and a demotion?  I don't think anybody that is a true competitor would be ok with that move. Which leads me to the opposite bookend in Gaither.  If things go like most believe, he's a goner regardless of money issue so the chances are you're going to replace both OT's anyway and have as close to an entire OL overhaul as possible.  

The plus is that Dumbo, Green, Schilling, Moll, and a few others are all FA's and wouldn't effect the pocket book and so the Bolts pretty much have a clean slate for the most part to work with.  

With that said, I went after two guys that wouldn't break the bank to get that could very well be starting RT's for a short period of time.  But more so, be solid depth if in fact the bookend is the early round targets.  Of the two though, Mckinnie has the experience at LT and would come at a bargain price given his advances age and all.  You can easily go OT in the 1st and 2nd round or even 1st and 3rd in my scenario.  

Which means your OL could look something like this.


LT - (Draft pick)/ (Mckinnie or later round draftee or FA) 
LG - Levitre / (Draft pick or affordable FA depth) 
C - Hardwick / (Molk/Baxter or FA or even draftee this year) 
RG - Boothe (Same as Levitre backup scenario) 
RT - (Draft pick) / (Harris/Mckinnie or affordable FA or later round draftee) 

Don't want to spoil my updated draft so I'll leave names out of it.  LOL.

88Unbeatable82 wrote: As I've said elsewhere, I'd much rather spend the one large chunk of my free agent money on a top corner instead of a lineman, and eliminate the need to draft a corner in the 2nd round or later (since they're likely not going to draft one at 11).  That opens up the draft to rebuild the line with what is a LOAD of talent there in this draft class, and even add a couple of guys at other positions of need (inside linebacker, running back, safety, receiver) with what are good rounds for those positions in the 3rd - 5th.

I get what you're saying and I like it, consider for a minute...I see probably 13 CBs (Milliner not included) who are worthy going between the late 1st and end of the 3rd round.  Its a deeeeep CB draft, the kind where you don't spend $3M a year on a B-list CB in free agency you take a rookie who demands $500K.

Where as I see only 3 LTs who are capable of day 1 starters. This is important because whomever we draft (whenever) will surely be starting for us in week 1.

To use the analogy again, our draft is handcuffed by our need at left tackle.  If we can get rid of that need pre-draft we can do whatever we want at 11 like take Cooper, take Lotulelei, maybe Bjorne Werner falls to us like Ingram last year, or we could even trade back if we can find a partner.  Its a true best player available position to be in.

I still think we should go OL, OL, OL in the first three rounds of this draft..... and even then, we will need ONE MORE PLAYER in the FA to add depth, OR start (depending on if we get two OG's or two OT's in our "haul").

...and if Vasquez moves on, it is absolutely set in stone (IMO...) that we need to go OL in the first three rounds...

yantha wrote: I still think we should go OL, OL, OL in the first three rounds of this draft..... and even then, we will need ONE MORE PLAYER in the FA to add depth, OR start (depending on if we get two OG's or two OT's in our "haul").

...and if Vasquez moves on, it is absolutely set in stone (IMO...) that we need to go OL in the first three rounds...

I agree 100% Yantha. I would have one exception though, in the second round, if a player comes to the Chargers...like a stud CB or LB or DT or even RB that they feel is a difference maker, why not pull the trigger, and then go O-Line in the third. That way they can get top OT in first, probably a stud guard in the third, and at least on free agent OT veteran. Coupled with a later round guards or tackles.....I think the second round pick, for me, is the real interesting scenario, it's almost a no-brainer that they go offensive line with the 11th pick....but who is going to be there in the second??? Hmmm...HA!

Yeah, as in any draft, if a player slips for one reason or another, you have to take him despite need.  Always look at the bigger picture.

I'd even pick TE Tyler Eiffert in the second round if he slipped to 43...  That would be a hell of a value pick!

yantha wrote: Yeah, as in any draft, if a player slips for one reason or another, you have to take him despite need.  Always look at the bigger picture.

I'd even pick TE Tyler Eiffert in the second round if he slipped to 43...  That would be a hell of a value pick!

Yeah! That would be, but I think he'll get nabbed before our second pick. I keep saying I love our very own SDSU TE, Gavin Escobar......I think with his size and pass catching ability, he's going to be darn good. His pro day is tomorrow, I believe, so it will be interesting to see what comes of it.

yantha wrote: I pretty much agree with your entire post.

Now that begs the question though, can we afford a guy like Adam Jones or Toler?

88Unbeatable82 wrote: As I've said elsewhere, I'd much rather spend the one large chunk of my free agent money on a top corner instead of a lineman, and eliminate the need to draft a corner in the 2nd round or later (since they're likely not going to draft one at 11).  That opens up the draft to rebuild the line with what is a LOAD of talent there in this draft class, and even add a couple of guys at other positions of need (inside linebacker, running back, safety, receiver) with what are good rounds for those positions in the 3rd - 5th.

As I have been saying since they released him, I prefer they get Atlanta's Robinson, but whomever it may be, yes, I don't see why they couldn't get one such corner.

syxwunine wrote:

88Unbeatable82 wrote: As I've said elsewhere, I'd much rather spend the one large chunk of my free agent money on a top corner instead of a lineman, and eliminate the need to draft a corner in the 2nd round or later (since they're likely not going to draft one at 11).  That opens up the draft to rebuild the line with what is a LOAD of talent there in this draft class, and even add a couple of guys at other positions of need (inside linebacker, running back, safety, receiver) with what are good rounds for those positions in the 3rd - 5th.

I get what you're saying and I like it, consider for a minute...I see probably 13 CBs (Milliner not included) who are worthy going between the late 1st and end of the 3rd round.  Its a deeeeep CB draft, the kind where you don't spend $3M a year on a B-list CB in free agency you take a rookie who demands $500K.

Where as I see only 3 LTs who are capable of day 1 starters. This is important because whomever we draft (whenever) will surely be starting for us in week 1.

To use the analogy again, our draft is handcuffed by our need at left tackle.  If we can get rid of that need pre-draft we can do whatever we want at 11 like take Cooper, take Lotulelei, maybe Bjorne Werner falls to us like Ingram last year, or we could even trade back if we can find a partner.  Its a true best player available position to be in.

We just disagree some on the level of talent between the rookie and free agent classes at the positions of offensive line and corner.  You see the free agent linemen as better than the rookies, and rookie corners as better than the free agents.  I see the rookie linemen as better than the free agents, and rookie and free agent corners (so far) about equal.

I guess we'll find out in time .

I would like to get the chance to see what we have in Ladarius Green this year at TE. Of course Antonio Gates will still be a focal point as the team determines if he has anything left in the tank. I've been a major proponent of 1. OL 2. CB 3. OL of course, without really knowing who will be available at those spots. I would still be fine with OL in the first 3 picks or OL and TE so long as that TE was not just a "Rob Gronkowski" wanna be, but also an adept and reliable blocker with pass catching skills. How are Eifert and the other top TE talents in this years draft when it comes to blocking?

I suppose no true mock can be completed until we know what the Chargers do in free agency. Does anyone see a possible draft day trade involving any current Chargers players? I know those tend to be rare, and thus very difficult to speculate on unless a team is actively shopping a player.

Have Rivers and Weddle stated anywhere that they might restructure their contracts?

YES!  LaDarius Green is still one of my favourite young Chargers.  I imagine a a two TE set \ with Green and Gates...   The "G-Force".....

nyislelover wrote: I would like to get the chance to see what we have in Ladarius Green this year at TE. Of course Antonio Gates will still be a focal point as the team determines if he has anything left in the tank. I've been a major proponent of 1. OL 2. CB 3. OL of course, without really knowing who will be available at those spots. I would still be fine with OL in the first 3 picks or OL and TE so long as that TE was not just a "Rob Gronkowski" wanna be, but also an adept and reliable blocker with pass catching skills. How are Eifert and the other top TE talents in this years draft when it comes to blocking?

I suppose no true mock can be completed until we know what the Chargers do in free agency. Does anyone see a possible draft day trade involving any current Chargers players? I know those tend to be rare, and thus very difficult to speculate on unless a team is actively shopping a player.

Have Rivers and Weddle stated anywhere that they might restructure their contracts?

How much juice does Gates have left in the tank? He's a big target and can be a weapon in the red zone or short yardage, but the days of defenses having to double team him, or worry he's going to get YAC are probably close to over. Statistically speaking as an NFL player and considering his numbers this past season, the arrow is pointed down. He's also an injury waiting to happen. I hope the Chargers have a back-up plan to go with Green. 4th-5th round could be a good spot to find a TE. Escobar would be awesome...6'6'' and good hands.

If the Bolts had a Roddy White and a Julio Jones to put outside of Gates, I have no doubt that he could go on for years to come being one of the league's top producers at tight end, just like Gonzalez has.  Of course, the Bolts do not have that (as almost no other team in the league has, either, other than Green Bay and maybe one or two others).

So the question is whether or not Gates can continue to beat the more than occasional double teams on a consistent basis.  If the Bolts can consistently provide Rivers more than 1.5 seconds to scan the entire field, and consistently provide Gates and the other receivers more than 1.5 seconds to get open, my guess is that yes, Gates and this passing game as a whole will be highly productive again.

But we shall see...

88Unbeatable82 wrote: If the Bolts had a Roddy White and a Julio Jones to put outside of Gates, I have no doubt that he could go on for years to come being one of the league's top producers at tight end, just like Gonzalez has.  Of course, the Bolts do not have that (as almost no other team in the league has, either, other than Green Bay and maybe one or two others).

So the question is whether or not Gates can continue to beat the more than occasional double teams on a consistent basis.  If the Bolts can consistently provide Rivers more than 1.5 seconds to scan the entire field, and consistently provide Gates and the other receivers more than 1.5 seconds to get open, my guess is that yes, Gates and this passing game as a whole will be highly productive again.

But we shall see...

This is very true! I would say though that Gonzalez has been way more durable than Gates and is definitely a little faster and athletic. Gates is just more of a load and has been able to use his large frame as a weapon in a more effective way than Gonzalez earlier in his career. When the Chargers had VJ, teams had to decide how to pick their poison...When VJ was doubled, Gates had big games, and visa versa. I think improving the o-line will help this team in so many different ways.....so going offensive line early and often is a good mantra to have.....HA! When can the Chargers start signing some vet free agents? It isn't soon enough for me!!!