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Trade Hardwick?
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Posted: 02/09/2013 7:38 PM
Trade Hardwick?
I know we have a lot of work to do fixing this OL, and I also know that the initial reaction to this question will be "are you crazy?", but hear me out. Hardwick might be regarded fairly highly on the market right now, and IMO he is a problem on this OL at this stage. I just don't see the same fire I used to see. I think he's coasting towards retirement actually. Way too comfortable as a Charger right now.... and it shows. I've invested in a stats site called profootball focus, and it breaks down every player, every game, every play right down to the nitty gritty...., and Hardwick is absolutely not playing up to the VET level, and PAY level we should expect. In FACT, although it doesn't seem obvious watching games because he's on the inside and it is not so clear to many of us when he misses an assignment, but he has been as bad as CLARY at times!!  Yes Clary.... Clary gets targeted a lot on this forum because when he misses a block or gets torched by a speed rusher, it's pretty obvious... But Hardwick is not holding up at the point of attack. He is NOT as bad as Clary, but he's playing at a backup level compared to the SF 49ers O-linemen (literally). I am proposing we trade Hardwick to the Dallas Cowboys who are in dire need of interior OL help. Agree or not, my question to all of you is "what sort of draft pick could we get in return?" If we can get a 3rd rounder, I'd take it. Hardwick is popular here in NAME, because he's been a solid player in the past, but he has regressed majorly and I'm just putting "bias" out of my mind. We can do better, and this draft is stock full of OL talent right through the 4th and even 5th round. Alabama's Barrett Jones might be an option for example.
Last edited 02/09/2013 8:13 PM by yantha
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Posted: 02/09/2013 8:12 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
No. We got enough problems with the fact that we're most likely going to have 3 new starters on the O-line in 2013...let Vasquez walk its 4, trade Hardwick and it'll be all 5.
The reason this is unimaginably stupid IMHO is because O-line is one of those areas where you just need to have chemistry. Its not like ILB where you just read run/pass and react accordingly, or CB where you just follow your receiver or cover your area the best you can. Offensive line is about all 5 guys being on the same page against the ridiculous super athletic defenders and crazy blitz schemes in today's NFL.
This cap situation, if managed correctly, will only be a 1 year problem because thanks to McGuire the bad only player we can't afford to cut is Meachem.
Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters."
Last edited 02/09/2013 8:14 PM by syxwunine
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Posted: 02/09/2013 8:16 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
There's a lot of Chemistry between Larry, Curly and Moe, but that doesn't make them good football players! LOL jk.. VASQUEZ absolutely must be given a 5 year deal ASAP. ...and then build around him with the thought that Hardwick already has one foot in the fishing boat with Dielman.... syxwunine wrote: No. We got enough problems with the fact that we're most likely going to have 3 new starters on the O-line in 2013...let Vasquez walk its 4, trade Hardwick and it'll be all 5.
The reason this is unimaginably stupid IMHO is because O-line is one of those areas where you just need to have chemistry. Its not like ILB where you just read run/pass and react accordingly, or CB where you just follow your receiver or cover your area the best you can. Offensive line is about all 5 guys being on the same page against the ridiculous super athletic defenders and crazy blitz schemes in today's NFL.
This cap situation, if managed correctly, will only be a 1 year problem. |
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Posted: 02/09/2013 8:20 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
yantha wrote: There's a lot of Chemistry between Larry, Curly and Moe, but that doesn't make them good football players! LOL jk..
VASQUEZ absolutely must be given a 5 year deal ASAP.
...and then build around him with the thought that Hardwick already has one foot in the fishing boat with Dielman....
I like Vasquez, I defended him heartily while people here criticized him over the season. That said at 330 lbs he is not an ideal fit for our new zone blocking scheme, usually those guys are smaller...more like Nick Hardwick actually. And they are also much easier to find. A guy like Jonathan Cooper or Justin Pugh in the 2nd would be the ideal zone guard. Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters."
Last edited 02/09/2013 8:21 PM by syxwunine
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Posted: 02/09/2013 9:01 PM
Re: Trade Hardwick?
The problem is I don't see this realistically happening. I just don't see anyone trading for a guy that will likely only be around for about 2-3 more years. And I'm serious in that statement that I believe Nick will be done with football in about 2-3 years.
As for LV, I think he would actually be a perfect fit to lose 5-10 pounds from now to the beginning of the regular season and move him to LG. And you may even get away with moving Scary or um Clary to RG if you can make good on grabbing some solid bookends.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze
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Posted: 02/09/2013 9:40 PM
Re: Trade Hardwick?
If we can draft all three Alabama top OL prospects, this OL is well on it's way.....
LG Warmack
RT Fluker
OG/OC Jones
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Posted: 02/09/2013 11:48 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
Has the switch to a zone-blocking scheme been confirmed someplace? I've read recently that this is only conjecture but no coach has stated this was the direction headed. Has it been decided? syxwunine wrote: I like Vasquez, I defended him heartily while people here criticized him over the season.
That said at 330 lbs he is not an ideal fit for our new zone blocking scheme, usually those guys are smaller...
“I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people.”
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Posted: 02/10/2013 4:05 AM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
I agree that Hardwick didn't perform commensurate to his compensation last year.
I also believe he might have become part of the losing culture of a team being overly defensive to criticism.
But I don't believe in trading him. It would leave a huge void and what are we realistically going to get back? He knows the team and maybe the regime change will light a fire under him. Hardwick has been a great Charger and I hope he retires a great Charger.
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Posted: 02/10/2013 6:23 AM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
Some teams try to deal their older players while they still have value, we'll have to wait and see what managements mindset is with regards to improvement and loyalty to the older players like Hardwick, Gates etc
The Colts bailed on Manning, Saturday, not sure who else. i realize the had a Manning replacement in mind , and money may have been the reason
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Posted: 02/10/2013 9:45 AM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
No one is trading for Hardwick. Every offseason it's a question of whether he will retire or not.
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Posted: 02/10/2013 9:57 AM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
shoehater wrote: Has the switch to a zone-blocking scheme been confirmed someplace? I've read recently that this is only conjecture but no coach has stated this was the direction headed. Has it been decided?
Technicality, its just a matter of time. We hired a guy who is well known for it, so I'd be surprised if we asked him to do something other than what he's been doing his whole coaching career. And I think given the state of our O-line now is the right time to make the switch. Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters." |
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Posted: 02/10/2013 12:50 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
Colts also bailed on Dallas Clark - all three players were on the wrong side of the bell curve. I wonder if TT will clean house in SD too? Gates, Phillips, Jammer, ect...
"The Colts bailed on Manning, Saturday, not sure who else. i realize the had a Manning replacement in mind , and money may have been the reason"
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Posted: 02/10/2013 1:36 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
Boltboi wrote: Colts also bailed on Dallas Clark - all three players were on the wrong side of the bell curve. I wonder if TT will clean house in SD too? Gates, Phillips, Jammer, ect...
"The Colts bailed on Manning, Saturday, not sure who else. i realize the had a Manning replacement in mind , and money may have been the reason" The Colts were in a unique position to draft the next great NFL quarterback. We are not in a position to replace Gates or Hardwick. All Telesco would be doing is creating more problems than we can fix in one offseason, and making it nearly impossible to compete in 2013. You may also notice the Colts did not dump any of their 3 biggest cap black holes Freeney, Mathis, and Wayne....why? Because they knew where to draw the line, they knew what they had to do to re-structure yet stay competitive. Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters."
Last edited 02/10/2013 1:39 PM by syxwunine
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Posted: 02/10/2013 1:47 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
add Shaun Phillips to that list too, if anything if they can get these vets to restructure then the would provide great depth for us too syxwunine wrote:
We are not in a position to replace Gates or Hardwick. All Telesco would be doing is creating more problems than we can fix in one offseason, and making it nearly impossible to compete in 2013.
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Posted: 02/10/2013 1:58 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
kiwibolt wrote: add Shaun Phillips to that list too, if anything if they can get these vets to restructure then the would provide great depth for us too
Yep I do think Phillips, Jammer, Cason, and Vasquez will all leave. But Johnson is a capable starter, I like the idea of Ingram moving to the RT side, and Antwan Barnes is still explosive so we need to get him back. I think a realistic re-structure for Rivers would be to say....take $10M off his salary cap hit for 2013, and redistribute it as guaranteed money for the final 2 years ('14 and '15) of his deal. It would allow us to go out and spend that money on a guy like Jake Long and free up our entire draft, and it wouldn't gouge our cap in '14 and '15 either. Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters."
Last edited 02/10/2013 1:59 PM by syxwunine
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Posted: 02/10/2013 3:31 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
Nothing has been set in stone as far as statement but there is a definite likelihood that Coach D will implement at least some form or some elements of the Zone and Slide protection to this OL as his career is based on the Zone from Georgia Tech to Buffalo he's pretty much been a zone style coach. shoehater wrote: Has the switch to a zone-blocking scheme been confirmed someplace? I've read recently that this is only conjecture but no coach has stated this was the direction headed. Has it been decided?
syxwunine wrote: I like Vasquez, I defended him heartily while people here criticized him over the season.
That said at 330 lbs he is not an ideal fit for our new zone blocking scheme, usually those guys are smaller... The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze
Last edited 02/10/2013 3:32 PM by Thisfrickinguy
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Posted: 02/10/2013 4:39 PM
Re: Trade Hardwick?
I've heard the the clean slate remark made by Coach McCoy that would lead me to believe that he will try his best to make it work with a good majority of the guys that are currently still under contract.
That said
Gaither - I don't see Gaither being the type to re-structure so I wouldn't bother but I would look for a solid replacement in the event that Gaither comes up lame again. Gaither is both strong enough and athletic enough (when healthy and not lazy) to fit both man and zone.
Green - Green is a good fit for the zone but I'm not sure if they would bring him back.
Vasquez - Vasquez while a bit on the heavy side is actually a decent fit for the zone. If he could drop 5-10 lbs as I suggested earlier, he would like be a nice position to be a more mobile OG at either side of the OL.
Hardwick - Hardwick fits the zone period. Hardwick however IMO doesn't fit the man/power scheme anymore. (one of the few reasons I believe that they will implement more of the zone)
Clary - Clary in all honesty might be an ok fit for the zone because in the slide pro, the OT isn't asked to set the edge as often as in a man pass pro. It also helps that the slide usually consist of the OL sliding to one side or the the other and is responsible for the player lined up to a certain side dependent upon the slide call.
Dumbo - He could be a decent fit for the zone. Not very strong for the man but I think his footwork is good enough to be a zone player.
Troutman - I don't see Troutman as a good fit for the zone. He's perfect for the RG in a man/power scheme but he's never been very fleet footed. At least with Vasquez, he's shown mobility. Troutman has never been asked to be an athletic type of OG (pulling,traps,etc)
Molk - Perfect example of a zone player. Undersized, underweight, too small but quick enough to get to the second level. While he's a very strong player and is a gym rat, I just don't see him being a man/power type interior OL.
Harris - Harris is actually a perfect fit for the zone. He came from a ZBS @ UCLA.
Schilling - Also another perfect fit for the zone. Wolverine alum like Molk who played in a zone.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze
Last edited 02/10/2013 4:42 PM by Thisfrickinguy
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Posted: 02/10/2013 5:11 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
I continue to feel like a lot of people don't really understand the concept of restructuring a contract.
Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters." |
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Posted: 02/10/2013 7:01 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
Correct me if I'm wrong but generally you "stretch" the contract by adding another year or two to it, and "backload" it so that THIS year does not cost as much. There are more complexities of course.
Tomlinson restructured after some hesitation in this way for example, but in the end he was cut before the contract ran out.
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Posted: 02/10/2013 11:05 PM
RE: Trade Hardwick?
yantha wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but generally you "stretch" the contract by adding another year or two to it, and "backload" it so that THIS year does not cost as much. There are more complexities of course.
Tomlinson restructured after some hesitation in this way for example, but in the end he was cut before the contract ran out. That is correct.
99% of the time a player wont even consider a restructure unless he gets something more out of it. Even moving the money to the back of the deal has complications because of the perceived interest lost, so more often teams ending up paying more or paying longer.
Derek Cox - "Being a champion is realizing that, everything matters." |
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