Rex Ryan as voted on by NFL players.

Not that this is a surprise, but many on this board clamored for his fiery persona in our locker room and stated (along with Rex) that he would have won a couple of Super Bowls in San Diego by now.

maybe. but...


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/b...fl-players-poll

love the thread shoe, there's a lot of crow to be served here thats for sure

honk said Norv was the NFLs most overrated coach, like the article says it means honk had Norv as highly-rated 

watch Deion Sanders on this video from the 2:40s onwards he says Norv is definitely a leader of men and explains our locker room to a t

video

Norv isn't over-rated.  Most consider him a joke.  Ask a Bronco fan, Raider fan, Chiefs fan, they love that Norv is the coach of the Bolts.  Doesn't that say anything?

If only we got Rex Ryan, Mike Singletary, or Josh McDaniels. And dang it! We really missed out on Jeff Fisher who has turned around the Rams (3-5).

Or Jim Harbaugh, or Pete Carroll, or John Fox, or Leslie Frazier, who were also bandied about in here, but selectively forgotten. 

chargers4life wrote: If only we got Rex Ryan, Mike Singletary, or Josh McDaniels. And dang it! We really missed out on Jeff Fisher who has turned around the Rams (3-5).

Sure let's ask the Raider, Bronco, and Chief fans! We'll ask them while comparing their coaches to Norv's over his same Charger years (2007 forward):

Broncos: Shanahan (15 - 17 fired), McDaniels (11 - 17 fired), Studesville (1 - 3), Fox (13 - 11)

Raiders: Kiffen (5 - 15 fired), Cable (17 - 27 fired), Jackson (8 - 8 fired), Allen (3 - 5)

Chiefs: Edwards (6 - 26 fired), Haley (19 - 26 fired), Crennel (3 - 8)

Yes, I'll ask the AFC West fans if they think our coaching situation is a joke.

SDChargers85fan wrote: Norv isn't over-rated.  Most consider him a joke.  Ask a Bronco fan, Raider fan, Chiefs fan, they love that Norv is the coach of the Bolts.  Doesn't that say anything?

I would have happily taken Jim Harbaugh. I don't recall him being talked about though.

Jeff Fisher was the consensus favorite.

SDChargers85fan wrote: Or Jim Harbaugh, or Pete Carroll, or John Fox, or Leslie Frazier, who were also bandied about in here, but selectively forgotten. 

chargers4life wrote: If only we got Rex Ryan, Mike Singletary, or Josh McDaniels. And dang it! We really missed out on Jeff Fisher who has turned around the Rams (3-5).

another of Norvs victims...

chargers4life wrote: I would have happily taken Jim Harbaugh. I don't recall him being talked about though.

Jeff Fisher was the consensus favorite.

Projecting how a coach would do with one team given how he has done with a different team is something of an ill-constructed method for evaluating how over or underated that coach might be. I'm not saying it has no relevance, but the relevance is rather small when you figure that he would be working under vastly different circumstances in respects to players, personelle and management. I don't think any crow is neccessary for those who wanted Rex Ryan in San Diego, unless they had stated that he would have brought the New York Jets a title by now. *this is not so much a comment on the survey of the players, as much as it is a comment about the way in which that survey has been used here as a tool for making a largely unrelated and speculative accusation*

Any argument as to how Rex would have faired relative to Norv Turner, either positively or negatively, as the Chargers head coach, over the last several seasons means very little. Any argument made off of this basis years ago would have assumed that the Patriots hire of the post-Brown's Bill Belicheck would be an awful move. Did Belicheck suddenly become a genius in New England, or was he simply surrounded by the right working parts to help him flourish and meet his coaching potential? I tend to believe it's the later.

One thing I'd be very interested in learning regarding the player poll would be how players who have been winners voted, regarding "over-rated" coaches. Did they release a list of the players who participated in the poll, without revealing how they voted? Or did they state how many starters or how many second stringers took part in the poll? Without looking at the results, I believe Bill Belichick received the second most votes on that list.

Winners know what it takes to win. I would be surprised if the players who have been winners had voted for Belichick as over-rated. It could be easier for a loser to mark someone who has won as over-rated because they don't know what it takes to win as a team and can't appreciate the roll that a coaching staff plays in reaching that end. Not to mention, jealousy.

I don't like Belichick. At least from the marginal access I get to him from a distance. I think from the persona he portrays at least in the media (with the understanding that the media could play SOME roll in shaping that) that he comes off as something of a douche often times. All that said, I can sure as heck respect what his record shows and would never rate him as over-rated. When I look at such a poll and it places him in second... well that just raises a lot of questions in my mind about the poll and how it was conducted.

chargers4life wrote: If only we got Rex Ryan, Mike Singletary, or Josh McDaniels. And dang it! We really missed out on Jeff Fisher who has turned around the Rams (3-5).

I'll bet you right now Jeff Fisher will have the Rams in the playoffs next year.  Their front 7 is fantastic, their secondary is much improved, Sam Bradford is rebounding, the problem is they have NO WEAPONS and both their starting OTs have been injured.  

Long term Fisher has never had a poor O-line, and never had a running game as mediocre/poor as it has been this year.  I bet you they make a 49er'ish turn around next year.

Their RT, Barry Richardson, is injured? Their LT, Hunter, is questionable, not out.

With that said, couldn't the same be said about the Chargers? Gaither has missed 4 games, and his decline in performance tells me that he may be playing hurt. Clary is possibly the worst RT in the NFL. We are now playing with two WR's that were just picked up from off the street.

syxwunine wrote: 

I'll bet you right now Jeff Fisher will have the Rams in the playoffs next year.  Their front 7 is fantastic, their secondary is much improved, Sam Bradford is rebounding, the problem is they have NO WEAPONS and both their starting OTs have been injured.  

Long term Fisher has never had a poor O-line, and never had a running game as mediocre/poor as it has been this year.  I bet you they make a 49er'ish turn around next year.

chargers4life wrote: Their RT, Barry Richardson, is injured? Their LT, Hunter, is questionable, not out.

With that said, couldn't the same be said about the Chargers? Gaither has missed 4 games, and his decline in performance tells me that he may be playing hurt. Clary is possibly the worst RT in the NFL. We are now playing with two WR's that were just picked up from off the street.

Who cares about this week?  I'm talking about over the 3-5 record they've accumulated.

LT - Rodger Saffold is their starter, he's been out since week 3 and replaced by..WAYNE HUNTER?!?!?  A right tackle so terrible he was actually traded and cut by the Jets in the same season. 
LG - Shelly Smith has only played in 3 games.
C - Scott Wells (their big FA pickup) has played 1 game.  Replaced by a scrub with 0 career starts prior.
RG - Harvey Dahl well over 30 and past his prime.
RT - Barry Richardson (ask a Chiefs fan) is a below average at best RT, he lost his job the last 2 weeks to Joe Barksdale.

So you were saying?  Based on Gaither, Vasquez, and Hardwick I'd take our O-line any day of the week and twice on Sundays, over their situation.

The speculation about how Rex Ryan would do as a Charger coach has been a topic of conversation on this forum for a couple of seasons now. Including when Rex brought the subject up himself (if you recall).

That same coach is now being billed (by NFL players) as THE MOST OVERRATED COACH in the NFL.

He hasn't brought the Jets the rings he promised. And, he likes to think he could have brought us some rings. Where has the construction gone ill? He's overrated.

nyislelover wrote: Projecting how a coach would do with one team given how he has done with a different team is something of an ill-constructed method for evaluating how over or underated that coach might be. I'm not saying it has no relevance, but the relevance is rather small when you figure that he would be working under vastly different circumstances in respects to players, personelle and management. I don't think any crow is neccessary for those who wanted Rex Ryan in San Diego, unless they had stated that he would have brought the New York Jets a title by now. *this is not so much a comment on the survey of the players, as much as it is a comment about the way in which that survey has been used here as a tool for making a largely unrelated and speculative accusation*

Any argument as to how Rex would have faired relative to Norv Turner, either positively or negatively, as the Chargers head coach, over the last several seasons means very little. Any argument made off of this basis years ago would have assumed that the Patriots hire of the post-Brown's Bill Belicheck would be an awful move. Did Belicheck suddenly become a genius in New England, or was he simply surrounded by the right working parts to help him flourish and meet his coaching potential? I tend to believe it's the later.

What in his "long term" history makes you think he'll make a 49er'ish turnaround?

In 17+ seasons Jeff Fisher had 6 winning seasons - and that is including those teams where he had a much better O-line and running game as you mentioned. 6 out of 17+ seasons (and a 5 and 6 record in the playoffs).

syxwunine wrote: Long term Fisher has never had a poor O-line, and never had a running game as mediocre/poor as it has been this year.  I bet you they make a 49er'ish turn around next year.

shoehater wrote: What in his "long term" history makes you think he'll make a 49er'ish turnaround?

In 17+ seasons Jeff Fisher had 6 winning seasons - and that is including those teams where he had a much better O-line and running game as you mentioned. 6 out of 17+ seasons (and a 5 and 6 record in the playoffs).

Well lets be fair for 12 of those seasons he was usually 2nd fiddle to Peyton Manning's Colts, it was always a battle for the wildcard where the Titans were concerned....and yet they were always in the 8-10 win range even with the likes of Kerry Collins and Vince Young.  The man made respectable teams out of less than what he has now, and I would argue Sam Bradford is the best game manager he's ever coached in his long career. 

Next year, when they get the O-line healthy and add a semi-decent receiving threat to go with Amendola, trust me that team will take a huge step forward.  I really wish we had hired him, the man breeds tough teams.

shoe, you know I've been on this board for years, and I choose my words very carefully when I type something of a critical nature. I didn't say Rex wasn't over rated.  My post actually had nothing to do with my assessment of the job Rex Ryan has done in New York.  The conversation went ill where it became a bait on Charger fan's eating crow for wanting him as a head coach at one point.  And when a number of other coaches who Charger fans wanted were criticized with the benefit of hindsight in completely different systems.  I gave my reasons for why I thought that wasn't relevant, but I will try to explain myself more clearly.   

I'm saying that speaking of Charger fans having wanted Rex as a head coach at one point, or Jeff Fisher or John Gruden, or anyone else for that matter isn't relevant to how he was portrayed in the poll.  Just because he is over rated as the Jets headcoach doesn't mean he would have failed as the Chargers head coach.  Rex's claims about how he'd have performed as the Chargers head coach, also can't be substaniated and that's why they were laughed at.  That's why I provided the case and point of Bill Belichick.  The comment that some fans should, "eat crow" at the very least, implies that because Rex may have failed as the Jet's headcoach it means he would have failed as the Charger's head coach.  It can't be proved one way or the other. 

I was under the impression that kiwi, who is a long standing member, who I respect, was for a harmonious forum of Charger fans who are united.  How does suggesting that people should "eat crow" for an assertion that can't be proved (that Rex would have failed, or done worse then Norv as Charger's Head Coach) build or promote a unified and supportive fan base?

I would also ask, while you are willing to state that Rex is over rated, are you equally willing to agree with the players that Bill Belichick is over rated as a head coach?   I personally believe that the poll was not conducted from a sound basis because of Belichick's placement on the list.  The way the question was asked may have appealed too much to player subjectivity and not their objectivity.  Is this list truly a validation of how over rated these coaches are?  Or is it more a list that is indicative of how well they are liked by NFL players on opposing teams?  If you agree and stand by the players in that poll, I will not begrudge you that opinion.  I stand by my opinion that the argument suggesting Rex would have failed as a Charger's head coach or done worse than Norv, because of what's happened in New York, is ill formed.  I hope you won't begrudge me my opinion in that regard.

Weren't the Rams 2-14 last year? I'd say 3-5 is an improvement.

syxwunine wrote:

chargers4life wrote: Their RT, Barry Richardson, is injured? Their LT, Hunter, is questionable, not out.

With that said, couldn't the same be said about the Chargers? Gaither has missed 4 games, and his decline in performance tells me that he may be playing hurt. Clary is possibly the worst RT in the NFL. We are now playing with two WR's that were just picked up from off the street.

Who cares about this week?  I'm talking about over the 3-5 record they've accumulated.

LT - Rodger Saffold is their starter, he's been out since week 3 and replaced by..WAYNE HUNTER?!?!?  A right tackle so terrible he was actually traded and cut by the Jets in the same season. 
LG - Shelly Smith has only played in 3 games.
C - Scott Wells (their big FA pickup) has played 1 game.  Replaced by a scrub with 0 career starts prior.
RG - Harvey Dahl well over 30 and past his prime.
RT - Barry Richardson (ask a Chiefs fan) is a below average at best RT, he lost his job the last 2 weeks to Joe Barksdale.

So you were saying?  Based on Gaither, Vasquez, and Hardwick I'd take our O-line any day of the week and twice on Sundays, over their situation.

Yes. Me too. However, Gaither has been injured, missed 4 games, and his play has declined, which tells me that he is not healthy. We had a rookie undrafted free agent Mike Harris protecting Rivers blind side during those 4 games.

So, while forgiving everything wrong with the Rams, I'm just asking you to recognize that Norv has issues with his roster too.

If the Rams have no weapons, maybe they should have picked up our new weapons: Tutu and Danario Alexander, whom were at home playing their xbox until recently.

Heck, I would be willing to give them Jeromey "Can't block" Clary, Eddie "MIA" Royal and Robert "can't catch" Meachem for free.

syxwunine wrote:

So you were saying?  Based on Gaither, Vasquez, and Hardwick I'd take our O-line any day of the week and twice on Sundays, over their situation.

I was thinking the same thing.  And I agree with syx's assessment that they will have a huge turnaround next year, and of course, two top ten picks won't hurt matters.  As for the Rex Ryan, I would still take him here in SD, despite what he was "voted".  Despite two very bad years, Rivers is leaps and bounds better than Mark Sanchez, right?  I can't help but think that Ryan would have won at least once '09 or'10 with a QB that was better.  The guy's post-season record is 4-2, that is not over-rated, that is good!

HunterSTomlinson wrote: Weren't the Rams 2-14 last year? I'd say 3-5 is an improvement.

syxwunine wrote:

chargers4life wrote: Their RT, Barry Richardson, is injured? Their LT, Hunter, is questionable, not out.

With that said, couldn't the same be said about the Chargers? Gaither has missed 4 games, and his decline in performance tells me that he may be playing hurt. Clary is possibly the worst RT in the NFL. We are now playing with two WR's that were just picked up from off the street.

Who cares about this week?  I'm talking about over the 3-5 record they've accumulated.

LT - Rodger Saffold is their starter, he's been out since week 3 and replaced by..WAYNE HUNTER?!?!?  A right tackle so terrible he was actually traded and cut by the Jets in the same season. 
LG - Shelly Smith has only played in 3 games.
C - Scott Wells (their big FA pickup) has played 1 game.  Replaced by a scrub with 0 career starts prior.
RG - Harvey Dahl well over 30 and past his prime.
RT - Barry Richardson (ask a Chiefs fan) is a below average at best RT, he lost his job the last 2 weeks to Joe Barksdale.

So you were saying?  Based on Gaither, Vasquez, and Hardwick I'd take our O-line any day of the week and twice on Sundays, over their situation.