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thanks guys.....

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Posted: 7/4/2014 1:02 PM

thanks guys..... 


for keeping it free.

the farther we get from things past the more revisionist history creeps in.
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Posted: 7/4/2014 2:02 PM

Re: thanks guys..... 


34853_thumbup[1].gif
Keep a light on some patrols are still out! - RIP over50hog
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Posted: 7/4/2014 2:13 PM

Happy Independence Day! 


http://www.elwinggsp.com/images/StarsStripes.gif

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Posted: 7/4/2014 4:34 PM

One of my favorite quotes 


... even though he got the day wrong at the time, John Adams wrote to his wife Abigail,

The second day of July 1776 will be the most memorable epocha in the history of America.  I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival.  It ought to be commemorated as the Day of Deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.  It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations from one end of this continent to the other from this time forward forever more.

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Posted: 7/4/2014 5:24 PM

Re: One of my favorite quotes 


I think I have read that the actual signing was in fact earlier than the official ceremony.
Kinda like the picture of the flag raising on Iwo,  it was done later for the photo guy.
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Posted: 7/5/2014 8:38 AM

Re: One of my favorite quotes 


According to David McCullough in John Adams, the declaration was actually signed on August 2, 1776:

The actual signing of the document would not take place until Friday, August 2, after a fair copy had been elegantly engrossed on a single, giant sheet of parchment by Timothy Matlack, assistant to the secretary of Congress.  Nothing was reported of the historic event.

Last edited 7/5/2014 8:38 AM by BaumbasticHawg

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Posted: 7/5/2014 9:19 AM

Re: One of my favorite quotes 


Yeah, I checked and July 2, was the date the Continental Congress voted to accept the Declaration and thus Adams said that was the date we proclaimed our Independence. 
But it took them a while to get it signed by all that did sign it.

Wasn't trying to be picky.
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Posted: 7/5/2014 12:58 PM

Re: thanks guys..... 


Agreement to break away: July 2nd
Final draft adopted: July 4th
Written copy read in public square: July 8th
All signatures finally appended to official copy: August

We generally tend to think of an act as not being official until it has been voted upon and signed by the President.  But there were no such rules in place at the time.  So, in some senses, the document itself was simply a memorial of the act that had taken place earlier.  It would be more than a decade until some of the same men who signed the Declaration, served in the Continental army, or served as representatives to the Continental Congress under the Articles of Confederation, would join together to formulate the Constitution.

Did you know that the date wasn't celebrated for half a century after its occurrence?  The bitter division between the first political parties headed up by the second President, Adams, and the third President, Jefferson, provided no incentive whatsoever to celebrate a unifying event.

Did you know that the term "Founding Fathers" was not used until near the turn of the twentieth century?  I think one of the greatest mistakes people make when we study extraordinary historical figures is to create a mythology that obscures the actual record.  The term Founding Fathers generally refers to the political leaders, merchants, and landowners who numbered fewer than a hundred or so, but the number of men who actually drove the series of events likely numbered under ten.

Even so, the most amazing feat accomplished by the principle figures involved in the Revolution was that they were able to agree on anything at all. Washington, Hamilton, Adams, Madison, and Jefferson were deeply divided in their beliefs on religion, the powers of the federal government, the need to maintain a large standing army, the need for a national bank, the location of the capital, and the need to address the slavery question in the Constitution.
To get past those divisions, they did something that seems to be out of fashion lately. They compromised until it hurt.

Fortunately, after years of running against each other for President and despising one another, Adams and Jefferson began a correspondence that lasted almost 15 years, in which they shared detailed insight into the processes and the thinking of the times. As he lay ill in Virginia at the beginning of July 1826, Thomas Jefferson expressed a desire to live long enough to see the see the 50th anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th. One of Jefferson's last utterances before dying on the afternoon of July 4th, 1826, was "Is it the Fourth?"  Indeed it was.

Meanwhile, lying in his own sickbed in Massachusetts and unaware that Jefferson was ill, John Adams’ dying words on July 4, 1826, were reportedly, "Jefferson lives."  In fact, Adams survived Jefferson by several hours.

If you enjoy the History Channel, I strongly recommend "Founding Brothers," which explains the events of the era by focusing on seven key figures and six key events, one of which was the duel that took Hamilton's life. Here is the Amazon link and book cover:




The TV adaptation is also very good because it repeatedly restates the author's principle themes from the book.  There are four parts.  Here is the link to the first.


One thing is certain. Without pointing fingers or naming names, I can almost guarantee you that if a modern citizen, politician, or newspaper editor makes some sort of universal claim or sweeping generalization about the the beliefs or methods of the Founders, then the reference is probably flawed. I think everybody in Washington should be locked in a room and forced to watch this until they can recite it by heart. 
...her words are best taken with "the usual reservations with which we might sip a patent medicine. Some may like the flavor...but it is not a cure.... Nor would we, ordinarily, place much confidence in the diagnosis of a doctor who supposes that the Hippocratic Oath is a kind of curse."

Last edited 7/5/2014 1:02 PM by NostraHOGus

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Posted: 7/5/2014 4:15 PM

Re: thanks guys..... 


I agree, our "founding fathers" did not even pretend to be writing a document for the 21st century. they had enough trouble agreeing on what they wanted for 1776 and the 1785 constitution is a far cry from what the average American today would have written, but not one human alive in 1785 had the slightest notion of what the world would look like in 2014. So they wrote a document to work in 1785.
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