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ok the star rating system is a joke......

Posted: 6/14/2014 7:57 PM

ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


and heres why.....i cant remember the player or the school he committed to but i ran across an article talking about some unranked player committing to one of the sec schools. in same said article the guy said that surely that unranked will now be a 3 or 4 star recruit now that he has committed to an sec school. huh? now if the guy has the skills to garner the rating, fine, but just because of where he goes shouldnt mean a thing. dont care what school you are , there are guys who dont pan out . these guys need to get a better idea of the kids skill set instead of the "oh, saban recruited him, hes gotta be good.
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Posted: 6/14/2014 8:10 PM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


That is an unfortunate truth but most of the rating systems use that method as a backup and/or until a kid can be seen at some football camps. Usually they will remain unranked until a regional scouting person can come see them work out in person at a camp or privately or whatever. But, if they get offers from Bama, USC, Notre Dame, etc., they will give them 3* as a benefit of the doubt.

taterspaw wrote: and heres why.....i cant remember the player or the school he committed to but i ran across an article talking about some unranked player committing to one of the sec schools. in same said article the guy said that surely that unranked will now be a 3 or 4 star recruit now that he has committed to an sec school. huh? now if the guy has the skills to garner the rating, fine, but just because of where he goes shouldnt mean a thing. dont care what school you are , there are guys who dont pan out . these guys need to get a better idea of the kids skill set instead of the "oh, saban recruited him, hes gotta be good.
Keep a light on some patrols are still out! - RIP over50hog
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Posted: 6/14/2014 8:25 PM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


Until a couple years ago, there was  an outfit about three miles from here that for I heard, 300 dollars or so, would 
send a movie clip of your kid playing high school ball to those magazine guys and coaches at colleges etc. with the idea of exposing your kids talent to those who might have an influence getting a scholarship offer. 

There is nothing wrong with that for me at least, and I bet guys that do that star thing get some of their info from some of those films. Of course, the big school guys have plenty of publicity but a kid playing at a small school might get offers he would never have from coaches who see those films or read about the kid from some of those magazine "experts"

My point is, there are some potential great players at smaller schools that are virtually unknown to most folks. 
So I do think at times coaches might be alerted to a kid that they have never heard of and when they take a good close look, they want the kid to sign with them. But until that happens, that kid is not even a one star as the TV and magazine guys never heard of him.


As an aside, I used to read several of those magazines put out every year about the stars of the future and finally came to think the articles were basically worthless. Of course the large school guys who play big games get noticed as there are plenty of people watching. But Jim Thorpe ended up at Carlisle Institute, not Notre Dame.
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Posted: 6/14/2014 8:59 PM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


You make some good points about talent not always being found. 
Some of the more reputable ratings sites like Scout and Rivals have a rating and review system so that people who are seen can be verified.  This helps keep the good old boy or a guy's cousin from getting overrated. 
About the local service getting people exposure,  the only problem I have with it is that HS coaches are more than happy to get film out for any of their kids with college potential.  It helps the both of them and they do it for free. Something else that can come of it is when 3rd string 5' 5" cb Billy Bob Biscuiteater REALLY wants to play college ball and convinces daddy that the $300 is money well spent. Six months later and no replies then he's glad he made the 20 on the ACT.

bobrog4 wrote: Until a couple years ago, there was  an outfit about three miles from here that for I heard, 300 dollars or so, would 
send a movie clip of your kid playing high school ball to those magazine guys and coaches at colleges etc. with the idea of exposing your kids talent to those who might have an influence getting a scholarship offer. 

There is nothing wrong with that for me at least, and I bet guys that do that star thing get some of their info from some of those films. Of course, the big school guys have plenty of publicity but a kid playing at a small school might get offers he would never have from coaches who see those films or read about the kid from some of those magazine "experts"

My point is, there are some potential great players at smaller schools that are virtually unknown to most folks. 
So I do think at times coaches might be alerted to a kid that they have never heard of and when they take a good close look, they want the kid to sign with them. But until that happens, that kid is not even a one star as the TV and magazine guys never heard of him.


As an aside, I used to read several of those magazines put out every year about the stars of the future and finally came to think the articles were basically worthless. Of course the large school guys who play big games get noticed as there are plenty of people watching. But Jim Thorpe ended up at Carlisle Institute, not Notre Dame.
Keep a light on some patrols are still out! - RIP over50hog
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Posted: 6/14/2014 9:22 PM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


I tend to agree about the local publicity guys. After all, they are in it for money, not to help kids.
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Posted: 6/15/2014 8:06 AM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


I've talked to you about the young recruit CMA is after from here. I told you I watched the kid, he reminds me of a slower Jacorey Williams. He has never impressed me, yet he's rated as a high 3* on 247 and a magazine up here rated the "best" players in the Ozark's and he was ranked #1, with Monk #2, and Whitt #7 on the list. I just don't see it.

Edit: I think it may be because of the conference he plays in.
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--- HawgnDos wrote:

You make some good points about talent not always being found. 
Some of the more reputable ratings sites like Scout and Rivals have a rating and review system so that people who are seen can be verified.  This helps keep the good old boy or a guy's cousin from getting overrated. 
About the local service getting people exposure,  the only problem I have with it is that HS coaches are more than happy to get film out for any of their kids with college potential.  It helps the both of them and they do it for free. Something else that can come of it is when 3rd string 5' 5" cb Billy Bob Biscuiteater REALLY wants to play college ball and convinces daddy that the $300 is money well spent. Six months later and no replies then he's glad he made the 20 on the ACT.

bobrog4 wrote: Until a couple years ago, there was  an outfit about three miles from here that for I heard, 300 dollars or so, would 
send a movie clip of your kid playing high school ball to those magazine guys and coaches at colleges etc. with the idea of exposing your kids talent to those who might have an influence getting a scholarship offer. 

There is nothing wrong with that for me at least, and I bet guys that do that star thing get some of their info from some of those films. Of course, the big school guys have plenty of publicity but a kid playing at a small school might get offers he would never have from coaches who see those films or read about the kid from some of those magazine "experts"

My point is, there are some potential great players at smaller schools that are virtually unknown to most folks. 
So I do think at times coaches might be alerted to a kid that they have never heard of and when they take a good close look, they want the kid to sign with them. But until that happens, that kid is not even a one star as the TV and magazine guys never heard of him.


As an aside, I used to read several of those magazines put out every year about the stars of the future and finally came to think the articles were basically worthless. Of course the large school guys who play big games get noticed as there are plenty of people watching. But Jim Thorpe ended up at Carlisle Institute, not Notre Dame.


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Last edited 6/15/2014 8:12 AM by bakedog19741

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Posted: 6/15/2014 1:26 PM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


The star rating argument generally comes from schools that usually fall outside the top 25 or so eacc year...Each year there are many kids around the country that were not highly rated or ended up  at a smaller school and turn out being All Americans and have long NFL careers....however if stars didn't mean anything as some suggest, why have the same 30 or so schools who sign the best rated classes by the various services seem to always be in the top 20 year in and year out...decade after decade?

hawgs smell good

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Posted: 6/15/2014 1:57 PM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


Maybe because those top 30 or so schools do not wait for the rating to come out, they are looking at kids early enough to have a nice list of potential players and they are the schools that have the attention of kids in the 10th grades even earlier maybe. 

I think while the numbers mean much less than the people who sell them would say, but they see which kids the schools are looking at and I do think if say Alabama is looking at a kid who is a junior in high school, the rating guys will have that kid a three or four early., so I think the rating guys are smart enough to give the 30 school recruits high marks. But a middle of the pack school does not have access to the ones being pursued by the 30 top schools,

IMO, then, the ratings are usually pretty good but not because the rating guys are so smart, they are good businessmen.
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Posted: 6/15/2014 8:53 PM

joke is harsh but. 


I have said all along they will rank a player based on how the team that recruits him is doing. Some of that makes sense but as you stated the kid either has skill or he doesn't. The facts are that gets them close but really nothing more use it for what it is sort of like the Weather man :).
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Posted: 6/16/2014 3:18 AM

I wouldn't say that the system is a joke 


It is designed for the fans and to sell subscriptions.  I doubt that many coaches even pay attention to what a guy's star rating is.  There is a lot of information that goes into rating a player and it makes perfect sense that who is offering him scholarships is a perfectly legitmate part of the equation.  The coaches are the experts so why not use their eye to better hone your rating system. 

If a program that only pursues 4 and 5 star players offers a guy.  Wouldn't it be conceivable that that guy is probably a 4 or 5 star talent?  Makes sense to me.
Keep a light on some patrols are still out!
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Posted: 6/16/2014 7:45 AM

Re: I wouldn't say that the system is a joke 



armyrazorbacker wrote: It is designed for the fans and to sell subscriptions.  I doubt that many coaches even pay attention to what a guy's star rating is.  There is a lot of information that goes into rating a player and it makes perfect sense that who is offering him scholarships is a perfectly legitmate part of the equation.  The coaches are the experts so why not use their eye to better hone your rating system. 

If a program that only pursues 4 and 5 star players offers a guy.  Wouldn't it be conceivable that that guy is probably a 4 or 5 star talent?  Makes sense to me.
That's waaaaay too logical!  Imagine, coaches knowing more than fans and "recruiting services".
In the valley of the blind, the one-eyed man is king!!!
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Posted: 6/16/2014 7:56 AM

Re: I wouldn't say that the system is a joke 



40MOH wrote:
armyrazorbacker wrote: It is designed for the fans and to sell subscriptions.  I doubt that many coaches even pay attention to what a guy's star rating is.  There is a lot of information that goes into rating a player and it makes perfect sense that who is offering him scholarships is a perfectly legitmate part of the equation.  The coaches are the experts so why not use their eye to better hone your rating system. 

If a program that only pursues 4 and 5 star players offers a guy.  Wouldn't it be conceivable that that guy is probably a 4 or 5 star talent?  Makes sense to me.
That's waaaaay too logical!  Imagine, coaches knowing more than fans and "recruiting services".
This board knows way more than the coaching staff for sure.  LOL.  I'm sure CBB reads my posts for nuggets of information all of the time.
Keep a light on some patrols are still out!
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Posted: 6/16/2014 9:56 AM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


Maybe it's just my perception, but it seems to me that if recruiting Top 10 classes was the sole determinant of success, then the Longwhorns would have four or five times more hardware on the shelf than they currently do.

I think it would be interesting to compare a team's recruiting over a ten year period to the team's average final ranking in the polls over the same period.  I think what we'd find is that teams that do well probably recruit well under the star system, but I also think there will be teams that out performed their recruiting and teams that underperformed.

In the latter types of cases, does that mean that coaching has something to do with performance, or, as my statistics friend on the board would remind me, there is naturally some degree of deviation from the mean during any period measured? (I'm not even sure I phrased that correctly).
This boy is Ignorance and this girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased.”  - Charles Dickens
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Posted: 6/16/2014 10:20 AM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


There was a time frame back some 20 or more years ago that Notre Dame was in the top three recruiting classes every year and yet they were not very good considering. To me, it was both a coaching problem and overrating by some "experts" who had come to expect ND to always be a powerhouse.

I can remember the days when in fact, ND could pick just about any player from any part of the country they really wanted and expect to get him. But, time did in fact, change things.  I'm old enough to remember when three of the four AA backs were playing for Army. Who knows what we will see in 20 years.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 12:25 PM

Re: ok the star rating system is a joke...... 


Exactly. There's no way a service can scout every kid. So sometimes the go from unranked or 1 star to a 3 or 4 because who recruits them causes them to be scouted finally. Or they are going to assume the bigger conferences aren't going to recruit guys who can't play at a high level.


---------------------------------------------
--- HawgnDos wrote:

That is an unfortunate truth but most of the rating systems use that method as a backup and/or until a kid can be seen at some football camps. Usually they will remain unranked until a regional scouting person can come see them work out in person at a camp or privately or whatever. But, if they get offers from Bama, USC, Notre Dame, etc., they will give them 3* as a benefit of the doubt.

taterspaw wrote: and heres why.....i cant remember the player or the school he committed to but i ran across an article talking about some unranked player committing to one of the sec schools. in same said article the guy said that surely that unranked will now be a 3 or 4 star recruit now that he has committed to an sec school. huh? now if the guy has the skills to garner the rating, fine, but just because of where he goes shouldnt mean a thing. dont care what school you are , there are guys who dont pan out . these guys need to get a better idea of the kids skill set instead of the "oh, saban recruited him, hes gotta be good.


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Truth is Unkillable

Last edited 6/16/2014 12:27 PM by broeric

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