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OT - If you think weather seems hostile....

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Posted: 6/6/2014 12:22 AM

OT - If you think weather seems hostile.... 


...imagine the welcoming committee.



Never forget.
"Someone once told me, 'Time is a flat circle.' Everything we've ever done or will do, we're gonna do over and over and over again."
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Posted: 6/6/2014 12:29 AM

Re: OT - If you think weather seems hostile.... 


Amen, brother. I can't even imagine.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 7:10 AM

Re: OT - If you think weather seems hostile.... 


Amen, God Bless and Protect our men and women in uniform.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 7:45 AM

Re: OT - If you think weather seems hostile.... 


While Saving Private Ryan can give folks a very small step into the pool of Hell DDay must have been, in reality most of us can't even begin to imagine how awful that day and those moments were.

God Bless the Soldiers who gave their lives so that others could take the beaches, the trenches and the hills and turn the war. 


Go Hogs.

Last edited 6/6/2014 9:53 AM by DallasRazorback

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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:07 AM

Re: OT - If you think weather seems hostile.... 


Stood on the beaches at a Boy Scout Jamboree a few weeks ago.  I've never felt so small in my life.  Walked through some of the trenches at the top of the cliffs.  Awe inspiring just imagining the courage that it took to disembark those landing crafts.  If you ever get a chance to go, I highly recommend seeing the battlefields, museums, and especially the cemetery in person.  Port Winston was a fascinating feat of engineering.
Keep a light on some patrols are still out!

Last edited 6/6/2014 8:18 AM by armyrazorbacker

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Posted: 6/6/2014 9:32 AM

Re: OT - If you think weather seems hostile.... 


May we never forget! 

Sadly according to one poll , just less than 45% of Americans do not know what D-Day refers to. Apparently this is not part of their curriculum.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 1:29 PM

many thanks.......and a question... 


suppose the manhattan project was ready in time for this. suppose they would have used it? the allies had already laid waste or were in the process of on cities like dresden with incendiaries.

many reletives in the armed forces two grandfathers who served during ww2. one in europe one in the pacific. neither spoke much about what they saw.
the farther we get from things past the more revisionist history creeps in.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 3:40 PM

Re: many thanks.......and a question... 


I'm not sure FDR would have wanted to use it in Europe, but Truman faced a possible fight to the death from Japan. But we probably would have shown the Axis powers what we had and if they did not offer to surrender, we may have used it. Actually Italy was no factor so it would have been up to Germany and I am sure Hitler would have refused to surrender so we may have been forced to use it  as I do not think anyone wanted to hit the beaches if anything else was available. Of course, we don't know.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:54 PM

Re: OT - If you think weather seems hostile.... 


I taught a Sunday School class in 1962 to a group of 12 year olds. They wanted to know who Adolph Eichman was. They had never heard of the Holocaust.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 2:53 AM

Re: many thanks.......and a question... 


If Germany and Japan had been genuine partners, instead of self interested conspirators, they may have managed the bomb before the allies were able to win the war.  I'm sure that crossed the mind of those charged with whether to use the two bombs that were produced.

It is at least suggested that both countries had designs for a fission device, but the Germans invested more heavily in other weapons programs.  The Japanese program is still an enigma, but it is fairly certain they were making every effort to develop and manufacture a fission weapon.  At the time, the processes for developing weapons grade material was a huge undertaking just to produce enough needed for one or two bombs, so time was needed to set up the manufacturing process. The materials needed for manufacturing, however, were in short supply in both countries.

The American public was never told about these programs, but you can bet the U.S. and its allies knew everything there was to know about the German and Japanese efforts. My personal belief is that concern about development of the weapon by Japan or an invading Red army heightened the need to use the weapon to end the war. After the fall of Berlin, Germany seemed to try to smuggle some of its designs and maybe even a cache of uranium to the Japanese.The genie was out of the bottle, and there was no putting it back.

The bomb was a terrible weapon to use against a civilian population, but not necessarily out of line with the European fire bombing that had already occurred.  I wouldn't call its use the "right" thing as much it was a choice of evils.  Imagine being the first to obtain such a weapon but then hesitating to use it until an irrational enemy also acquired it.

And if its use meant that another group of Americans, including people like my father, could avoid a horrific invasion of the Japanese homeland along the lines of the Normandy invasion, then I think that was a very important consideration as well. Instead he spent his time in the Army of Occupation. 

It wasn't all fun and games to hear him describe it, but I have some pictures of him at a restaurant with some Japanese women that look like they came straight out of "Memoirs of a Geisha."  That had to be preferable to participating in a landing force during an invasion.

bobrog4 wrote: I'm not sure FDR would have wanted to use it in Europe, but Truman faced a possible fight to the death from Japan. But we probably would have shown the Axis powers what we had and if they did not offer to surrender, we may have used it. Actually Italy was no factor so it would have been up to Germany and I am sure Hitler would have refused to surrender so we may have been forced to use it  as I do not think anyone wanted to hit the beaches if anything else was available. Of course, we don't know.
"Someone once told me, 'Time is a flat circle.' Everything we've ever done or will do, we're gonna do over and over and over again."

Last edited 6/7/2014 3:03 AM by NostraHOGus

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Posted: 6/7/2014 10:48 AM

Re: many thanks.......and a question... 


I feel that we got lucky in that the Germans who had the heavy water plants and were well on the way to a fussion bomb were hampered by Hitler who decided the V2 was a more potent weapon and basically killed the bomb project. 
The German scientists were handcuffed by Hitler and it cost him dearly.

As far as us using it, we firebombed Tokyo and killed over 100,000 and Dresden I think 200,000 died  so using a mass death bomb was not really a concern. 

But Truman knew the Russians were moving rapidly in China and Japan might in fact be able to repulse an invasion. Personally I think Harry made the only realistic decision to drop the bomb. Even after the two bombs the die hards in the Japanese military wanted to fight to the death. The best version of that I have seen is in John Toland's "The Rising Sun" which has good info on the last month of the war from the Japanese viewpoint.
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