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LA Plastic Bag Ban

  • mdnjdevil
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Posted: 5/25/2012 11:26 AM

LA Plastic Bag Ban 


The land of laws and incentives strikes again.

http://reason.com/archives/201...ommentcontainer

The writer of this article brings up some interesting points.  It appears on the surface this law was only intended to eliminate these bags as an eyesore on the LA landscape.  The fact that they go one step further and elimintate paper is beyond me since it is a renewable and biodegradable resource.

Whatever happened to just picking the bag up and putting in the trashcan?  I happy to teach boys in Cub Scouts the Leave No Trace policy, hopefully I can have an impact.

Last edited 5/25/2012 11:28 AM by mdnjdevil

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Posted: 5/25/2012 1:02 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


I couldn't open the article up but maybe LA is trying to make it so that people start bringing their own tote bags (which I do here in Harford) and then, eliminate the need to cut down more trees?
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  • mdnjdevil
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Posted: 5/25/2012 1:19 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


I don't think that is the case since companines like International Paper maintain their own tree farms.

I talked with a friend who has stock in the company and is very thorough in his research.  I can't find the article, but he stated that at one point International Paper was selling some of their tree acreage due to the recycling programs being so successful and devaluing the trees.

They have also donated millions of acres to conservation.
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Posted: 5/25/2012 3:35 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


I did the whole tote bag thing until I read the stories of e. coli contamination and all the other illness causing pathogens. I'm somewhat of germaphobe so it gives me the heebie geebies thinking about that. If you put your produce in a bag that dripped meat enjoy the stomach upsets. There have been studies that show even if you wipe the bags out there are still enough bacteria to cause illness. That should be a good lawsuit when someone gets e. coli sepsis and ends up on dialysis or dead. That being said I do use the bags for bread, frozen food and canned goods.
What are they going to use to pick up dog poop?

Go after the real wildlife threat-- the plastic soda bottle rings that hold 6 packs together. Waterfowl get caught up in them and dolphins get then caught on their snouts-- if you want to do something positive make sure you cut all the loops open./off soapbox.

"When you go in the lion's den, you don't tippy toe in.You carry a spear, you go in screaming like a banshee, you kick whatever doors in, and say, 'Where's the son of a bitch!'If you go in any other way you're gonna lose.
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Posted: 5/25/2012 4:52 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 



stephenjames1979 wrote: I couldn't open the article up but maybe LA is trying to make it so that people start bringing their own tote bags (which I do here in Harford) and then, eliminate the need to cut down more trees?

The article points out the environmental costs of making these bags, which come from places like China instead of here like the plastic.  The shipping costs of these bags is quite great and once they are no longer useful (and can't be recycled often because of their make up) they will take up more landfill space.  Plastic bags are completely recyclable.
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Posted: 5/25/2012 4:53 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


I did the whole tote bag thing until I read the stories of e. coli contamination and all the other illness causing pathogens.

The article points this out and notes the amount of water needed to clean them in washers and energy used to do so.  They are worse for the environment.
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Posted: 5/25/2012 7:47 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


A few years ago NC banned paper saying it was killing the environment. We had more plastic.
Just last year they decided oops, plastic is worse for the environment, lets go back to paper.

MAKE UP UR F ING MINDS WILL YA!

I refuse to recycle because of this. I openly toss stacks of newspaper and cans in my trash. Of course in Cali they toss u in jail for that.
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Posted: 5/27/2012 10:49 AM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 




---------------------------------------------
--- BertJonesMyHero wrote:

A few years ago NC banned paper saying it was killing the environment. We had more plastic.
Just last year they decided oops, plastic is worse for the environment, lets go back to paper.

MAKE UP UR F ING MINDS WILL YA!

I refuse to recycle because of this. I openly toss stacks of newspaper and cans in my trash. Of course in Cali they toss u in jail for that.

---------------------------------------------

You 'refuse' to recycle. Really??? How utterly childish or just plain lazy. Do you throw garbage on the steet too and just assume someone else will deal with your mess?
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Posted: 5/27/2012 11:04 AM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 



mdnjdevil wrote: I don't think that is the case since companines like International Paper maintain their own tree farms.

I talked with a friend who has stock in the company and is very thorough in his research.  I can't find the article, but he stated that at one point International Paper was selling some of their tree acreage due to the recycling programs being so successful and devaluing the trees.

They have also donated millions of acres to conservation.

I know in Miane, one of our countries largest timber/paper producing states, that a 1 x 1 ratio is required by law.  A tree si planted for every single one cut down.  Mea dand International Paper are the two largest landholders in the state, and have tree farms as large as Connecticut.
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Posted: 5/27/2012 11:41 AM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


Some of us dont have the space to recycle only to have it picked up once a month and half the time the trash idiots don't show up at all. I live in Baltimore Co, where all refuse pick up is done on contract, and the company that has our contract blows and the county exec could give a crap. I can't tell you how many recycle days cans are in the street and paper blowing around because they no show . We were taking our trash to the dump to only to be told we were going too much. Our refuse collectors are so lazy they will crush your trash can for the hell of it so they don't have to walk it to the curb, again pictures and a complaint go ignored.
If you read the post he said he puts it in his trash NOT all over the street.

"When you go in the lion's den, you don't tippy toe in.You carry a spear, you go in screaming like a banshee, you kick whatever doors in, and say, 'Where's the son of a bitch!'If you go in any other way you're gonna lose.
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Posted: 5/27/2012 1:04 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


I don't throw trash in the street. But I'm sick of having Green stuffed down my throat.

My personal objection started in nthe 90's when I read about the Govt and companies making money off all the work people did recycling. Especially in the days when you had to take ur stuff to them. drk posted some other good reasons as well.
I do the basics. I don't litter. I don't dump my cat litter in the yard. I have a filter instead of bottle water. I take computer parts to the proper place. But I draw the line at 4 cans for every thing I discard. I don't drink from cans so I dont need to seperate that.

And as I posted, they don't know wtf is good and bad. First paper is bad then plastic then paper. w

Now that I say that, I guess the only thing I do that would irk greenie is dumping newspapers.

Last edited 5/27/2012 1:07 PM by BertJonesMyHero

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Posted: 5/27/2012 1:05 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 



drkraven wrote: Some of us dont have the space to recycle only to have it picked up once a month and half the time the trash idiots don't show up at all. I live in Baltimore Co, where all refuse pick up is done on contract, and the company that has our contract blows and the county exec could give a crap. I can't tell you how many recycle days cans are in the street and paper blowing around because they no show . We were taking our trash to the dump to only to be told we were going too much. Our refuse collectors are so lazy they will crush your trash can for the hell of it so they don't have to walk it to the curb, again pictures and a complaint go ignored.
If you read the post he said he puts it in his trash NOT all over the street.
ty.
Saying I REFUSE was over stating things a tad.

Last edited 5/27/2012 1:12 PM by BertJonesMyHero

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Posted: 5/27/2012 2:57 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 



RavenResurrection wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- BertJonesMyHero wrote:

A few years ago NC banned paper saying it was killing the environment. We had more plastic.
Just last year they decided oops, plastic is worse for the environment, lets go back to paper.

MAKE UP UR F ING MINDS WILL YA!

I refuse to recycle because of this. I openly toss stacks of newspaper and cans in my trash. Of course in Cali they toss u in jail for that.

---------------------------------------------

You 'refuse' to recycle. Really??? How utterly childish or just plain lazy. Do you throw garbage on the steet too and just assume someone else will deal with your mess?
No, the people throwing garbage everywhere are our enlightened college students. Seriously, go on a college campus at 6am in the morning.

But back to the topic, by not recycling paper, you are not causing more trees to be cut down. There are farms of trees that are specifically grown (and cut down) just to produce paper.

If people are really concerned about the environment, they should stop buying a bunch of stupid useless sh*t in the first place, and stop wasting energy by complaining about it on the internet.
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Posted: 5/29/2012 1:41 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 



IHATECROWS wrote:
No, the people throwing garbage everywhere are our enlightened college students. Seriously, go on a college campus at 6am in the morning.

But back to the topic, by not recycling paper, you are not causing more trees to be cut down. There are farms of trees that are specifically grown (and cut down) just to produce paper.

If people are really concerned about the environment, they should stop buying a bunch of stupid useless sh*t in the first place, and stop wasting energy by complaining about it on the internet.
Oh, I see. So if other people are lazy and careless, that means that you should be lazy and careless as well. That's the type of argument I'd present to my parents when I was 5 years old. Theres no good reason to refuse to recycle other than laziness. And thats not even a good reason, its just the truth. If you want to be lazy, and make things more difficult for someone else, its your right.
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Posted: 5/29/2012 2:16 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


RavenResurrection wrote:
IHATECROWS wrote:
No, the people throwing garbage everywhere are our enlightened college students. Seriously, go on a college campus at 6am in the morning.

But back to the topic, by not recycling paper, you are not causing more trees to be cut down. There are farms of trees that are specifically grown (and cut down) just to produce paper.

If people are really concerned about the environment, they should stop buying a bunch of stupid useless sh*t in the first place, and stop wasting energy by complaining about it on the internet.
Oh, I see. So if other people are lazy and careless, that means that you should be lazy and careless as well. That's the type of argument I'd present to my parents when I was 5 years old. Theres no good reason to refuse to recycle other than laziness. And thats not even a good reason, its just the truth. If you want to be lazy, and make things more difficult for someone else, its your right.
It depends on what materials you are referring to. Recycling paper products, when they are made from trees grown specifically for paper proecessing (and the company in question follows a policy - for whatever reason - of planting at least one new tree for every tree removed), it's not much of an issue to not recycle. Paper is biodegradable (it's nothing more than processed wood).

Aluminum cans? Totally different argument. In fact, if you are smart about it, collect your own used aluminum cans and take them to a metal recycler yourself. They will PAY you to recycle the material. And since any metal recycling in Anne Arundel County will sell it anyway, make money for yourself and not the state. I know there is a site in AAC that will buy scrap metal, but I can't think of the name. They're in Glen Burnie, I think near Crain Highway. My parents sold the remains of their old swimming pool (above ground, aluminum wall and supports) for about $50-$80. They thought they would just drop it off at the AAC landfill, but I told them to sell it as scrap instead. Free money for them.

Change your own oil? Take the used oil back to where you bought the fresh stuff. Or try and find someone that will use it as heating oil (some shops recycle the oil they drain from vehicles and use it to heat the shop in the winter).

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!

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Posted: 5/29/2012 2:32 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


There is a place off Crondall lane in Owings Mills that buys can. My husband hauled my next door neighbors in his pickup this spring and my neighbor got 120 dollars-- not too shabby. Recycling has just gotten a ton of pr, there is a lot more you can do for our environment , such a watering with gray water, limit your time in the shower, compost and don't used fertilizer with phosphates it kills out Bay, stop tearing down vital marsh area for your water front home , plant trees around your house to cut down on cooling cost-- you get the idea. Recycling a few newspapers and cereal boxes are a tiny portion of helping the environment.

"When you go in the lion's den, you don't tippy toe in.You carry a spear, you go in screaming like a banshee, you kick whatever doors in, and say, 'Where's the son of a bitch!'If you go in any other way you're gonna lose.
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  • mdnjdevil
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Posted: 5/30/2012 9:51 AM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 




Aluminum cans? Totally different argument. In fact, if you are smart about it, collect your own used aluminum cans and take them to a metal recycler yourself. They will PAY you to recycle the material. And since any metal recycling in Anne Arundel County will sell it anyway, make money for yourself and not the state. I know there is a site in AAC that will buy scrap metal, but I can't think of the name. They're in Glen Burnie, I think near Crain Highway. My parents sold the remains of their old swimming pool (above ground, aluminum wall and supports) for about $50-$80. They thought they would just drop it off at the AAC landfill, but I told them to sell it as scrap instead. Free money for them.
Maryland Recycle on 8th Avenue.  There is an ok flea market across the street on the weekends too!

http://www.marylandrecycle.com/
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Posted: 5/30/2012 11:46 AM

RE: LA Plastic Bag Ban 


Recycling is pretty darn easy for most folks. Some of us might have to drive the recyclables somewhere to drop off - I did for several years - but if you make it part of your other errands, then it's no biggie.

Do I look at it as "I'm saving the planet!"? No. I'll leave the self-righteous patting oneself on the back to the enviro wingnuts. I look at it as simply being responsible. Why throw something away and make trash out of it when it can be used again?

As for the plastic bags? If local legislators want to ban them, I'm cool with it. That's within their scope of authority - and, if voters are upset enough about it, it's within their scope of authority to boot the legislators out.
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Posted: 5/30/2012 12:56 PM

Re: LA Plastic Bag Ban 



RavenResurrection wrote:
IHATECROWS wrote:
No, the people throwing garbage everywhere are our enlightened college students. Seriously, go on a college campus at 6am in the morning.

But back to the topic, by not recycling paper, you are not causing more trees to be cut down. There are farms of trees that are specifically grown (and cut down) just to produce paper.

If people are really concerned about the environment, they should stop buying a bunch of stupid useless sh*t in the first place, and stop wasting energy by complaining about it on the internet.
Oh, I see. So if other people are lazy and careless, that means that you should be lazy and careless as well. That's the type of argument I'd present to my parents when I was 5 years old. Theres no good reason to refuse to recycle other than laziness. And thats not even a good reason, its just the truth. If you want to be lazy, and make things more difficult for someone else, its your right.
This post is what I call a strawman. I used this type of argument with my parents when I was 5 years old.
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  • mdnjdevil
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Posted: 5/30/2012 4:16 PM

RE: LA Plastic Bag Ban 




As for the plastic bags? If local legislators want to ban them, I'm cool with it. That's within their scope of authority - and, if voters are upset enough about it, it's within their scope of authority to boot the legislators out.
I would agree with you.  This is our legislative system at work and there are ways to change it. 

But our lawmakers continue to write and pass laws that defy statistical and empircal facts so our society becomes predisopsed to a litany of pretense.

As I said above... I don't believe this is a landfill or recycling issue.  It is an eye sore issue.  It isn't a legislative issue - it is a community issue. I'd actually prefer that money be dumped into the community about educating people to pick up their damn trash - even if they don't own it.

Last edited 5/30/2012 4:18 PM by mdnjdevil

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