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Nelson Mandela..

  • vburd
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Posted: 12/7/2013 10:08 AM

Nelson Mandela.. 


when did this great legendary icon suddenly become a darling of the GOP?..you know, the party that up until 2008 branded him a terrorist and supported his oppressors and aparthied policies (reagan).

for the GOP leaders who have given praise of him (some for political reasons) all they have gotten back from their flock are threats for them for even saying it.
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Posted: 12/7/2013 10:22 AM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


since you state this as fact...give us your proof...and something more substantive than your fondness for incitement...and kool aid
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  • vburd
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Posted: 12/7/2013 10:32 AM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


lol...still following my lead i see...good.

as i've stated before..1)i know your tactics, which always give me the advantage..2) unlike you, i never rant without something to back it up...here....



Thursday, several Republican politicians posted standard tributes to Mandela on Facebook today. But not everyone seemed to share the sentiment.

When Sen. Ted Cruz praised Mandela, one commenter responded:

Why don’t all you Mandela lovers head on over to South Africa and see what’s going on now that “Mandela’s people” have control of the nation…experience what life is really like. Especially if you are white.

Yup, that’s Ted Cruz: squishy sellout “Mandela lover”!

Here’s what someone posted after a similar tribute by Rep. Eric Cantor:

no, he was a terrorist and a commuinist (sic). study your history.

And another:

The Mass Murderer Mandela is finally dead. While he did some statesmen like things as President in the 1990s, he and his animal of a wife were mass murders and torturers.

As for Speaker John Boehner, his tribute drew this comment:

John, from your comments does it mean you support communism and the killing of white people

And when Sen. Marco Rubio posted a tribute, he got the following:

For someone whos(sic) family fled communism…fled the very things that mandela stood for…I am sad to see you revere this man.

And: He was a communist terrorist man.

.

This is a longer story, of course. Here’s what National Review wrote about Mandela just ten years ago when he opposed the Iraq War:

His vicious anti-Americanism and support for Saddam Hussein should come as no surprise, given his long-standing dedication to Communism and praise for terrorists. 

Last edited 12/7/2013 10:34 AM by vburd

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Posted: 12/7/2013 10:44 AM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


but not to worry..we already have a mandela replacement right in this country...and he even says so, comparing the AHCA to apartheid...with o'reilly of course beating the communist drum in the background.


Rick Santorum compares himself to Nelson Mandela fighting against the ‘apartheid’ of Obamacare

By Scott Kaufman
Friday, December 6, 2013 9:59 EST
Rick Santorum (Screenshot)
 

On last night’s O’Reilly Factor, Rick Santorum compared Obamacare to apartheid, then called Obamacare “cool” because it will help Republicans win in 2014.

“Nelson Mandela just died,” O’Reilly said. “I don’t know if you’re aware. Ninety-five years old. Nelson Mandela — I spent some time in South Africa, he was a communist, this man. He was a communist. But he was a great man anyway. The sacrifices he made for his people were just stunning. But he was a communist. A great man, but a communist.”

Last edited 12/7/2013 10:45 AM by vburd

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Posted: 12/7/2013 11:00 AM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


here was the difference in republicans of reagan's day and those of today...

even though reagan (and thacther) would not sign on to sanctions against the ****** aparthied goverment of south africa moderate republicans in congress of the time joined pressure on him and over rode his veto and passed the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act, terminating air links, much importation, and new investments and loans.
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Posted: 12/7/2013 1:55 PM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


i like o'reilly's quote.
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Posted: 12/7/2013 1:57 PM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


^^^ even though its false?
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Posted: 12/7/2013 2:50 PM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


these are excerpts that I've read.  My overall opinion is that he IS (in his heart) a socialist/communist but, as he aged and as he traveled (especially after his imprisonment) he began to alter his opinion and became more of a pragmatist; realizing that capitalist ideas are an important part of rebuilding his country; he knew he needed foreign investment and he also knew that the threat of his government "taking over" any private company would hamper their desire to invest.

well...here's what i've found:

From wikipedia:

Staying with a cousin in George Goch Township, Mandela was introduced to the realtor and ANC activist Walter Sisulu, who secured him a job as an articled clerk at law firm Witkin, Sidelsky and Eidelman. The company was run by a liberal Jew, Lazar Sidelsky, who was sympathetic to the ANC's cause.[40] At the firm, Mandela befriended Gaur Redebe, a Xhosa member of the ANC and Communist Party, as well as Nat Bregman, a Jewish communist who became his first white friend.[41] Attending communist talks and parties, Mandela was impressed that EuropeansAfricansIndians and Coloureds were mixing as equals.

Thenceforth, he altered his entire perspective, embracing such an approach; influenced by friends like Moses Kotane and by the Soviet Union's support for wars of independence, Mandela's mistrust of communism also broke down. He became influenced by the texts of Karl MarxFriedrich EngelsVladimir LeninJoseph Stalin and Mao Zedong, and embraced dialectical materialism.

In Cuba he met President Fidel Castro, whom he had long admired, with the two becoming friends.

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------

From: http://www.kvia.com/news/Nelson-Mandela-death-Exam ining-the-backlash/-/391068/23349352/-/dob3vo/-/in dex.html

Mandela's close association with Marxists goes back at least to the 1940s, when he was enrolled in law school.

He began a life-long friendship with Joe Slovo, "an ardent communist," the anti-apartheid icon wrote in his autobiography "Long Walk to Freedom."

Mandela described Slovo as of the people, "without whom I would have accomplished very little."

A watershed moment tightly bonded Mandela to Slovo and other communist allies.

Police gunned down 69 unarmed protesters in the town of Sharpville in March 1960. Then the government banned the communist party and the African National Congress, which fought for the freedom of black South Africans.

With Slovo and other Marxists, he co-founded the militia movement Umkhonto we Sizwe. It's meaning: "Spear of the Nation."

On December 16, 1961, the group carried out its first attacks on government installations and handed out leaflets announcing its existence..... (there's more to the article)

-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ------------------

From the SACP’s Umsebenzi Online:
At his arrest in August 1962, Nelson Mandela was not only a member of the then underground South African Communist Party, but was also a member of our Party’s Central Committee. To us as South African communists, Cde Mandela shall forever symbolise the monumental contribution of the SACP in our liberation struggle. The contribution of communists in the struggle to achieve the South African freedom has very few parallels in the history of our country. After his release from prison in 1990, Cde Madiba became a great and close friend of the communists till his last days….
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Posted: 12/7/2013 3:47 PM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


the man was as much a communist as MLK....and studying or befriending one does not make you one as well....

i've studied marx, lenin and have known professed communists.....had no effect on me outside of curiosity.
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Posted: 12/7/2013 4:57 PM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


I have family in South Africa although most have left...they live in compounds with contina wire and armed guards.  They cannot go out at night...of course they are white folks...

but even blacks are being murdered there...

http://www.persecution.org/201...south-africa-2/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/...ld-murder-case/

http://www.latimes.com/world/w...y#axzz2mpP8P6iX

hmmm, and didn;t Mandela also get a Nobel peace prize...go figure, he was a terrorist per American until  2008

http://investigations.nbcnews....rist-until-2008

Hey...no prejudice, JUST THE FACTS! and I can post zillions more of the rampant problems since Mandela governed...want more:
http://www.censorbugbear.org/g...e-crime-attacks

http://www.frontpagemag.com/20...*-south-africa/

Of course pointing this out is not being politically correct...well sorry, facts are facts and since I know people at the source I am prejudiced...hearing from the people living there is far more succinct than reading the garbage the media reports...
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Posted: 12/7/2013 5:11 PM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


white people being murdered in south africa..what a surprise ..a former ruling race that kept the native race in ****** bondage for centuries is surprised they are now being targeted and are now locking themselves behind gates..what a revelation. coming from a country with the highest murder rate in the industrialized world your post is hypocritical at the least.
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Posted: 12/7/2013 5:26 PM

Re: Nelson Mandela.. 


it's the ole "what goes around comes around"...and why you never oppress other people. you can bet your ass when the tables turn (and they will eventually) there will be a faction that will want revenge....and here are the sad results of the aftermath of apartheid for many s. african whites and their families...look familiar?





http://nolstuijt.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/poorwhitesdiemootpretoriaethniccleansingforcedremovaltobltownshipsmarch10222011courtcase.jpg

Last edited 12/7/2013 6:40 PM by vburd

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Posted: 12/7/2013 5:58 PM

RE: Nelson Mandela.. 


v...are you justifying their (the ANC) actions???
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Posted: 12/7/2013 6:30 PM

RE: Nelson Mandela.. 


of course not....i've seen enough mistreatment of minorities in this country to ever condone the practice, no matter what race. just stating the horrible and inevitable results of mistreating others and what was bound to happen when their turn came.
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Posted: 12/7/2013 8:17 PM

RE: Nelson Mandela.. 



vburd wrote: of course not....i've seen enough mistreatment of minorities in this country to ever condone the practice, no matter what race. just stating the horrible and inevitable results of mistreating others and what was bound to happen when their turn came.
You could've fooled me with your comments, you back tracking vburd?

What goes around comes around?   No wonder you banned me when I made a post about race, seems you have a problem...your comments would be banned if you were not the moderator...
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Posted: 12/7/2013 9:00 PM

RE: Nelson Mandela.. 


well, that's because you're easily fooled to begin with..look at your politics.

lol, and back tracking on what, i never endorsed human oppression of any kind ...i just gave facts as you did and had no problem doing...did you get banned for it?..no..so cease your crying.

do you need me to show you more examples from history and around the world of oppressed groups taking revenge on their former master?

and as for your still whinning about your banning six months ago..it was a completely different matter and you know it...so dry your tears and get over it..

Last edited 12/7/2013 10:33 PM by vburd

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Posted: 12/7/2013 11:03 PM

RE: Nelson Mandela.. 


I laugh when people use the fact that they guy worked closely with communists as a reason to criticize or put him down.   Whites forget that Blacks were oppressed and had the 5hit kicked out of them by "Capitalists" for centuries.  No need to go into that.  If oppression was all that you knew, I guarantee you would've listened when the commies came to talk promising social and economic equality as well.  This is why Dubois flipped and why King and Ghandi listened.  Why wouldn't they?
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Posted: 12/8/2013 9:27 AM

RE: Nelson Mandela.. 


the original question that was asked was whether or not mandela was a communist and, as i stated earlier, IMO he is a communist who became a pragmatic and practical politician knowing that he needed capital investment to lift his country and that communist governing was not going to attract any investment.

further, when you think back to where HE was in history in HIS country with apartheid and the horrible racial tensions he was suffering; it's no wonder he was attracted to communism. many oppressive dictators/leaders have convinced destitute and impoverished people that communism is the best way because it "gives" them stuff from "those evil rich" (it reverses the "oppression"). I don't believe mandela was an oppressive dictator; just pointing out that if one is poor and struggling and being segregated (for whatever reason) - it's easy to see why communism would be attractive to you (as an individual and as a people).

also, during that time period; communism was "taking off" as a political and governmental idea

that mandela made HUGE sacrifices is amazing; but, that he was a communist (IMO) that's true to, but he was savvy enough to "adjust" his position to help his country. unfortunately, that country is still struggling but he was able to make a lot of good things happen as well.

from wiki:

Mandela's administration inherited a country with a huge disparity in wealth and services between white and black communities. Of a population of 40 million, around 23 million lacked electricity or adequate sanitation, 12 million lacked clean water supplies, with 2 million children not in school and a third of the population illiterate. There was 33% unemployment, and just under half of the population lived below the poverty line.[241] Government financial reserves were nearly depleted, with a fifth of the national budget being spent on debt repayment, meaning that the extent of the promised Reconstruction and Development Programme (RDP) was scaled back, with none of the proposed nationalisation or job creation.[242] Instead, the government adopted liberal economic policies designed to promote foreign investment, adhering to the "Washington consensus" advocated by the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.[243]

Under Mandela's presidency, welfare spending increased by 13% in 1996/97, 13% in 1997/98, and 7% in 1998/99.[244] The government introduced parity in grants for communities, including disability grants, child maintenance grants, and old-age pensions, which had previously been set at different levels for South Africa's different racial groups.[244] In 1994, free healthcare was introduced for children under six and pregnant women, a provision extended to all those using primary level public sector health care services in 1996.[245] By the 1999 election, the ANC could boast that due to their policies, 3 million people were connected to telephone lines, 1.5 million children were brought into the education system, 500 clinics were upgraded or constructed, 2 million people were connected to the electricity grid, water access was extended to 3 million people, and 750,000 houses were constructed, housing nearly 3 million people.[246]
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Posted: 12/8/2013 9:29 AM

RE: Nelson Mandela.. 



caniac4life wrote: I laugh when people use the fact that they guy worked closely with communists as a reason to criticize or put him down.   Whites forget that Blacks were oppressed and had the 5hit kicked out of them by "Capitalists" for centuries.  No need to go into that.  If oppression was all that you knew, I guarantee you would've listened when the commies came to talk promising social and economic equality as well.  This is why Dubois flipped and why King and Ghandi listened.  Why wouldn't they?
"dime con quien andas y te diré quien eres"
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Posted: 12/8/2013 12:20 PM

RE: Nelson Mandela.. 



canes23 wrote: the original question that was asked was whether or not mandela was a communist and, as i stated earlier, IMO he is a communist who became a pragmatic and practical politician knowing that he needed capital investment to lift his country and that communist governing was not going to attract any investment.

further, when you think back to where HE was in history in HIS country with apartheid and the horrible racial tensions he was suffering; it's no wonder he was attracted to communism. many oppressive dictators/leaders have convinced destitute and impoverished people that communism is the best way because it "gives" them stuff from "those evil rich" (it reverses the "oppression"). I don't believe mandela was an oppressive dictator; just pointing out that if one is poor and struggling and being segregated (for whatever reason) - it's easy to see why communism would be attractive to you (as an individual and as a people).

also, during that time period; communism was "taking off" as a political and governmental idea

that mandela made HUGE sacrifices is amazing; but, that he was a communist (IMO) that's true to, but he was savvy enough to "adjust" his position to help his country. unfortunately, that country is still struggling but he was able to make a lot of good things happen as well.

from wiki:

Mandela's administration inherited a country with a huge disparity in wealth and services between white and black communities. Of a population of 40 million, around 23 million lacked electricity or adequate sanitation, 12 million lacked clean water supplies, with 2 million children not in school and a third of the population illiterate. There was 33% unemployment, and just under half of the population lived below the poverty line.[241] Government financial reserves were nearly depleted, with a fifth of the national budget being spent on debt repayment, meaning that the extent of the promised Reconstruction and Development Programme (RDP) was scaled back, with none of the proposed nationalisation or job creation.[242] Instead, the government adopted liberal economic policies designed to promote foreign investment, adhering to the "Washington consensus" advocated by the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.[243]

Under Mandela's presidency, welfare spending increased by 13% in 1996/97, 13% in 1997/98, and 7% in 1998/99.[244] The government introduced parity in grants for communities, including disability grants, child maintenance grants, and old-age pensions, which had previously been set at different levels for South Africa's different racial groups.[244] In 1994, free healthcare was introduced for children under six and pregnant women, a provision extended to all those using primary level public sector health care services in 1996.[245] By the 1999 election, the ANC could boast that due to their policies, 3 million people were connected to telephone lines, 1.5 million children were brought into the education system, 500 clinics were upgraded or constructed, 2 million people were connected to the electricity grid, water access was extended to 3 million people, and 750,000 houses were constructed, housing nearly 3 million people.[246]
ridiculous...people do need to look up the definition on what a true communist is. if the man was a communist he had an excellent chance to lead the country down that path if he wanted to....he didn't..south africa was then and still is a democracy today. plus, if he were a communist he would have immediately de-privatized all private property and business. and as for welfare and other social programs increasing, well of course..he wasn't about to keep his own people in squalor any more like his predecessors did, they needed help.

and you may not realize it..but you right now are either benefiting, or will benefit from communist based programs or policies. the u.s has had for decades the biggest socialized programs on the face of the planet.....social security (the biggest)..medicaid/medicare.. 

if you use, have used, or intend to use any of these programs you sir, are technically a supporter of the collective based communist ideology .

Last edited 12/8/2013 1:29 PM by vburd

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